Administrators Gail Posted November 28, 2015 Administrators Posted November 28, 2015 I do not follow the Sabbath School lessons but am currently reading through Jeremiah. Tell me, Was God's nation wicked because the followed other gods, or did it follow other gods because it was wicked? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Members phkrause Posted November 28, 2015 Members Posted November 28, 2015 Interesting question Gail! Probably a little of both. I'd say first they followed other Gods and than the progression would be that they started following even more because they had become wicked! Naomi and JoeMo 2 Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted November 28, 2015 Moderators Posted November 28, 2015 Which came first, the chicken or the egg? phkrause may be on to the answer. phkrause 1 Quote Gregory
Administrators debbym Posted November 28, 2015 Administrators Posted November 28, 2015 we are all born in iniquity so that is our baseline default. but when we choose and cultivate idolatry of any form we deepen in our selfishness. so at some point if we fail to maintain our connection with God, ultimately we will do the bidding of the enemy of God housed in our own fallen nature. phkrause 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
Moderators Kevin H Posted November 28, 2015 Moderators Posted November 28, 2015 I also think that Phkrause may be on to the answer. As we study Jeremiah it is good to also keep in mind the books of Deuteronomy - Kings. Jeremiah and Lamentations are sort of his "Testimonies to the church" with, at least Joshua- 2 kings (If not Deuteronomy - 2 kings) his conflict of the ages series. There appears to be a worshiping of Yahwheh, but a feeling of not fully trusting this God of Milk and Honey and wanting to secretly try to appeal to the gods of honey for blessings and gods of milk to leave them alone. phkrause 1 Quote
pnattmbtc Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 On 11/28/2015, 10:19:33, Gail said: I do not follow the Sabbath School lessons but am currently reading through Jeremiah. Tell me, Was God's nation wicked because the followed other gods, or did it follow other gods because it was wicked? I think the latter. Not following other gods was a symptom of not having faith in Christ, just like breaking any other commandment would be. It was their unbelief that made them wicked, and unbelief is manifest by wickedness (e.g. the breaking of the commandments). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
JoeMo Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 I'm also reading through Jeremiah right now. Concerning Gail's question,I agree with phkrause. Israel always seemed to have a propensity to stray from the true God and include the gods of the other nations in their worship. Plus, they were being told by false prophets to "just believe; and everything will be OK! Our God loves us; and we will always prevail! Don't worry!" Their blind acceptance of the cultures around them led them into a kind of syncretism, not unlike what our society faces today. By assuming that all religions point to the same God, most secular people and many Christians seem to embrace this principle. By assimilating the culture and religion of other nations, Israel started doing stupid things, which eventually led to the Babylonian captivity. For example, instead of following the advice from Jeremiah and Ezekiel to submit to the King of Babylon, they chose to accept the advice of the false prophets who were telling Israel to resist Babylon - that God would not allow the pagan King to overrun Jerusalem. The people believed the "warm and fuzzy" stuff to the exclusion of the truth. Ultimately, God was warning them not to do anything stupid; and at the same time telling them He knew that they would; and this would be the consequence. A significant portion of Jeremiah's prophecies did not see fulfillment in the Babylonian captivity. There must have been another time frame for those prophecies. I believe that time frame is now. Could God have been telling us through Jeremiah that by assigning the same powers to other gods as we do to the true God (i.e., embracing the theory that all spokes lead to the same hub; all religions point to the same divine power; intermixing Christian and non-Christian congregations in joint worship to different gods), we are in a sense embracing a form of idolatry that will lead the Western world to do something stupid? Could God also be telling us "if you do these stupid things (which I know you will do), these are the consequences ..." So in the end, was it God who was punishing the people, or was it that God - in honoring humanity's free will - allowed events to take their natural course; that intervening would somehow diminish man's free will? If these thoughts are derailing the intent of this thread, I apologize. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted November 30, 2015 Author Administrators Posted November 30, 2015 No, not at all. I appreciate your input! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted November 30, 2015 Author Administrators Posted November 30, 2015 I get the sense, though, that Israel was not only doing stupid things, but horrible things. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
JoeMo Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 I agree Gail - horrible, stupid things. Do we as a people (in a spiritual and a nationalistic sense) tolerate some horrible things that are going on right now - things that God has warned His people to avoid throughout history? Things that have always resulted in adverse consequences? Quote
Administrators Gail Posted November 30, 2015 Author Administrators Posted November 30, 2015 You mean things that oppress the innocent and then ignore the oppressed? Kill our children? Maybe not through the fire but the firearms killings are getting a lot of attention these days... Maybe it's not worshiping a god named Buddha but a sports channel or computer game. I mean, the Bible says that if we worship an idol we are like that idol (Ps. 115:8). What does that say about our modern idols and we who commit so much time to them? I don't believe that we are at the point where society is as violent as it was in Bible times. But it's not great, either. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators debbym Posted November 30, 2015 Administrators Posted November 30, 2015 I recall a statement that when we use our children by dressing them in the the most fashionable and immodest dress, and place their appearance above principle for the sake of popularity, we are offering them in the fires of another god. the impact on them is not just spiritual death, but inculcating a love for receiving the adoration of the world, and this is very destructive to their lives and the lives around them. This is very serious to God, but in our world it is regarded casually. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted November 30, 2015 Members Posted November 30, 2015 can the study of the Bible to the exclusion of all other subjects and persons be considered a form of idolatry? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
LifeHiscost Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Learner's definition of WICKED [also more wicked; most wicked] 1 a : morally bad : evil a wicked act of cruelty She played the part of the wicked stepmother/witch in the play. b informal : having or showing slightly bad thoughts in a way that is funny or not serious She wore a wicked grin after her victory. wicked laughter She's known for having a wicked sense of humor. 2 informal : very bad or unpleasant She had a wicked case of food poisoning. A wicked odor was coming from the closet. 3 informal : very good He throws a wicked fastball. This would seem to preclude those newly born having wickedness inherently within their character Therefor it would seem to me wickedness is a cultivated propensity as a person grows older, and is only reversed in direction as a result of making conscious decisions to follow righteous examples, the most telling to prevail being the beckoning of Jesus' calling. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Kevin H Posted December 1, 2015 Moderators Posted December 1, 2015 Gail good point. However Buddha never considered himself a god and he was anti-idols. Naomi 1 Quote
Administrators Gail Posted December 1, 2015 Author Administrators Posted December 1, 2015 9 hours ago, Kevin H said: Gail good point. However Buddha never considered himself a god and he was anti-idols. Okay- thanks for the clarification! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
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