"God is mad at America"

[Clio]

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060116/ap_on_re_us/katrina_nagin

From the AP Newswire.

*SNIP*

New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.

NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin suggested Monday that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and other storms were a sign that "God is mad at America" and at black communities, too, for tearing themselves apart with violence and political infighting.

"Surely God is mad at America. He sent us hurricane after hurricane after hurricane, and it's destroyed and put stress on this country," Nagin, who is black, said as he and other city leaders marked Martin Luther King Day.

"Surely he doesn't approve of us being in Iraq under false pretenses. But surely he is upset at black America also. We're not taking care of ourselves."

*SNIP*

The mindset of a vengeful God, mad at America, is beginning to take hold.

It's not going to be long. One or two more "hand of God" disasters and whatever it takes to appease an angry god is going to come more and more to the forefront of people's minds.

And then they're going to start looking for scapegoats. Who do you think the scapegoats will be?

Clio

[Amelia]

And then he said,

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New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin called on black people to rebuild the city, which was more than 60 percent black before Katrina displaced about three-quarters of its population.

"This city will be a majority African American city," Nagin told a crowd at City Hall. "It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans."

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[Clio]

Yep. At the moment he's a crackpot. But it's been voiced, and reported in the mainstream news.

It's no longer "unthinkable" or "unpatriotic".

Within a year or two, if we continue to have these kinds of events, it will become a part of the subconscious of global society.

Just watch. Listen other places on the net where global consciousness comes together.

In less than 18 months, since that comedian first called Christianity a mental disorder, that thought has percolated through the leading edge of global consciousness and has become an "event horizon" of sorts in the way people think with regard to Christians.

Seeing this proclamation from Mayor Nagin with no dissenting opinion, in the mainstream newsmedia, should be a wakeup call. Especially since his statements were reported as fact instead of with the usual disclaimers.

We all know they aren't fact, and he's a crackpot. But it's the wedge in the door, the opening of the cultural subconscious to the idea that "God is 'mad' at America".

The steps thereafter are short indeed. It would behoove us to not allow them to take us by surprise.

Clio

[Dr. Shane]

Now he says New Orleans will be a chocolate city because that is what God wants. Is this the same god that Pat Robertson keeps talking about?

[Amelia]

Today he was backpeddling on the remark he made about New Orleans becoming a "city of chocolate", ie for blacks only. Now he is saying that what he ment by chocolate was, that the only way you can make chocolate is by adding milk to the mixture. What a foolish man.

[Stan]

OR is AMERICA mad at GOD?

[Amelia]

Well Nagin is apparently mad at somebody.

[Clio]

Is he backpedaling on the God is mad at America remark too?

[Dr. Shane]

He says God is mad at America because of our involvment in Iraq. I don't follow that logic. God is mad at American for its involvement in Iraq so He destroys New Orleans??? Am I missing something?

[Clio]

Then the purpose was accomplished.

It's no longer "unthinkable" or "unpatriotic" to hold the belief that God is mad at America, irregardless of whether or not the logic tracks.

Watch for this concept to pop up more and more in the collective consciousness of not just our society, but global society.

It will. Just like the idea that Christianity is a mental disorder. It took that concept about 18 months to go from a loud-mouth comedian trying to be funny to being a strongly head belief by many.

There is a movie out in the UK that calls it child abuse. It's airing for the first time this month.

Those beliefs, unthinkable as short as 5 years ago, are key to what is about to happen.

Clio

[james423]

I'm not sure this mayor knows what he means. Personally, I think he's used to having the local newspaper bury his remarks in the inside pages - now the national media trumpets his mistakes around the globe.

Since I have had to run a much, much smaller city myself, I feel sorry for him. He's had to deal with a major storm, a blotched relief effort (this country throughout its history has not been good at dealing with a crisis), and a flattened city he fervently wishes can be rebuilt without getting anyone mad at him.

Under the circumstances and given the pressures he is experiencing, I'm not sure that his remarks should be taken as an indication of an idea to come as much as we might wish it.

[Clio]

It's not what he meant, James.

It's what the general public in discussion forums around the world are making of it.

It has made it's way into the global consciousness. Much like Pandora's Box, what has been released cannot be returned to confinement.

The last time this happened, it took 18 months to come into film, news commentary, and general public awareness. You know it today as "Christianity is a mental disorder and could be construed as 'child abuse'". There are movies, documentaries, talk shows, news commentary are starting to focus on this or some form of this around the world.

I happened to be watching the show on which it was said for the very first time, by an Comedy Channel comedian. I know when it was, because it was during Mike's first year of illness. That makes it 18 months ago or slightly less.

I'm betting this time it will take about 12.

Clio

[there buster]

Actually, "Christianity is a mental illness" was printed in our local newpaper around 1991.

[Clio]

Well... I don't get your local paper... But it just goes to show you... it started small... and look where we are today.

This guy got national and international coverage day 1!

Clio

[lazarus]

I think Nagans problem was that he expressed his concerns about the future of NO not candidly enough. He wanted to "sweeten" his comments but in sugar coating them his message was lost.

Very simply Nagan did not want NO to be rebuilt, reorganised, in such a way as to not allow the black residents who were in the majority there to return. There has been talk that the situation in NO is a chance to make it a white dominated city again. Thats what he really wanted to say!

The stuff about Iraq and America is just the opposite end of

Robertson, Franklin Graham and the like. Of course they condemn Nagin because he's not one of them.

[Dr. Shane]

Actually, I think he is much more concerned about hispanics dominating than whites. In rebuilding the city, hispanic workers are flooding in. There is concern by many blacks that when the city is rebuilt, the hispanics will settle there and not return to where they came from (most from neighboring state Texas).

Hispanics make up a majority in the State of Texas and some of the blacks in Louisiana are afraid that they will move in and take such status there. That would mean black politicians being replaced by hispanic politicians. That is why Nagan wants a chocolate city. He is more concerned about cinnamon than vanilla. He is a racist in the tradition of the old KKK.

[lazarus]

Quote:

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Shane said:

He is a racist in the tradition of the old KKK.

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Thats extreem even for you Shane....I thought the tradition of the KKK involved lynching, shooting and burning crosses. How do you arrive at such a bizzare and conclusion? You have surpassed yourself.......and of course that remark was not inflamatory!

[Dr. Shane]

Instead of lynching Nagan is pushing for deportation. Instead of shooting Nagan is trying to get hispanics black-balled. Instead of burning crosses, Nagan is labeling hispanics "wet backs". This issue has drawn the attention of the Spanish networks and is talked about in the hispanic community.

The spirit of the KKK was to eliminate the problem. Which to them was blacks. Nagan's plan is the same - to eliminate the hispanics. Which he will use the various venues at his disposal.

The KKK looked at a person and didn't see their worth in the light of a sacrificed Savior and His blood. They saw a person's skin color and made a judgment based on that alone. Nagan does the same.

Is it extreame? Yes, it is. Saying he wants a city to be a chocolate city is quite extreame.

Mexico's Presient Fox said that Mexicans would do jobs that even blacks wouldn't do and he caught a lot of criticism for that remark. What he should have said, and what I believe he meant, was that Mexicans will do jobs that even the poorest Americans will not do. That is what Nagan is afraid of. Mexicans are hardworkers.

If New Orleans fills up with hardworking hispanics, employers will give preference to them after the city is rebuilt. That is what Nagan is afraid of. Post-Katrina New Orleans is apt to be much different than pre-Katrina New Orleans. It may well no longer be a chocolate city.

[lazarus]

So are you saying that Nagin wants to kill hispanic people! Cos thats what the KKK did to blacks?

Its not illigitamate for Nagin to be concerned that the diplaced citizens of NO get first pic of the jobs and housing. This area was their home....for many perhaps where they were born and raised.

It would be ligitimate for the authorities to give the first oportunities to former N.O. residents to give them a chance to re-establish themselves in their city. after all this was an disaster area not a virgin development.

[Kountzer]

I don't have a problem with any other culture or ethnic group. I don't believe that hispanics are inherently more holy or spiritual than any other group, as was suggested in another thread and post. Church growth mirrors over all population growth.

Nor do I think they are any more hard working, all things considered. Much of this contrie's infrastructure would not have been built were it not for slaves of african descent. In regards to one culture group being harder working than another, I think it is about economics. If some white collar computer programmer loses his or her job because the work was farmed out to India, it is not because they are lazier, it is because they would not, or could not work for $10 k a year, or less, when their educational level, and American standard of living demands more.

DB

[Dr. Shane]

Mexicans are harder working when compared to their American counterparts because in Mexico there is no safety net. If one doesn't work, they don't eat. A hispanic born in the US and raised here doesn't appear to have any harder work ethic than any other nationality born and raised here. So it isn't the race but rather the background.

The Spirit of the KKK was to eliminate anyone they saw as a threat. They did kill and torture people to accomplish that goal. Mayor Nagan sees hispanics as a threat. He has openly stated that he wants a chocolate city - a majority African-American city. If Nagan had been alive 50 years ago and had been born white, I have little doubt he would have been in the KKK. He thinks like them.

The idea that those that lived there before should be first in line for jobs and property sounds a lot like the spirit of the poll tax that prevented blacks from voting for generations. Those that lived in New Orleans before are entitled to the property they owned and assistance in rebuilding. If they are not allowed to live where they lived before or if it is in an area that will not be developed, they should somehow be reimbursed. However if they rented property or lived in government housing then they are not entitled to any property now unless they purchase it.

Nagan fears change - just like the KKK did. The KKK was afraid that if they let blacks gain power, the blacks would take over. Nagan fears if hispanics are allowed to move in and work in New Orleans, the hispanics will take over. It is the same spirit of fear that results in racism.

I recognize the contribution that slaves made in the US however we must also recognize the contribution that immergrants made in the US. Immergrants built bridges, roads, dams, railroads and worked in many factories with miserable conditions. Immergrants have made just as big of contribution as slaves did and continue to contribute long after slavery has been done away with.

[lazarus]

Quote:

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Shane said:

The Spirit of the KKK was to eliminate anyone they saw as a threat. They did kill and torture people to accomplish that goal. Mayor Nagan sees hispanics as a threat. He has openly stated that he wants a chocolate city - a majority African-American city. If Nagan had been alive 50 years ago and had been born white, I have little doubt he would have been in the KKK. He thinks like them.

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I really think you are making a far fetched comparison there. Lets suppose Nagin is saying thet Hispanics are a threat is he willing to kill and torture to reach his goal. There has been no evidence that Nagin is that kind of man.....a torturer and a killer. I an genuinely suprised that you would take this position.

Quote:

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The idea that those that lived there before should be first in line for jobs and property sounds a lot like the spirit of the poll tax that prevented blacks from voting for generations.

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I'm not sure I understand how you arrived at that conclusion. I don't see the connection.

Quote:

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However if they rented property or lived in government housing then they are not entitled to any property now unless they purchase it.

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Of course!

Nagin fears those who once lived in NO won't get the opportunity to rebuild their lives. Its a legitimate concern. To make a comaprison with the KKK is either to misunderstand the KKK or to misunderstand what happened with Katrina.

Quote:

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I recognize the contribution that slaves made in the US however we must also recognize the contribution that immergrants made in the US. Immergrants built bridges, roads, dams, railroads and worked in many factories with miserable conditions. Immergrants have made just as big of contribution as slaves did and continue to contribute long after slavery has been done away with.

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I can see one key diffence between the slave and the immigrant. The slave was forced and did not recieve pay. To assert that the contribution is on a par is to make a leap onto the side of incredulity!

Blacks are immigrants too!

[Kountzer]

Ray Nagin is neophyte politician. A few years ago he was a cable tv executive, then he ran for mayor and won. He has probably been saying stupid stuff all the time. If the hurricane hadn't come along I doubt if anyone outside of NO would know who he is. The only reason he is railed upon by certain peole on this board is because he is black, and they need someone to spew their racist vitriol upon. No more, no less.

DB

[Amelia]

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Much of this contrie's infrastructure would not have been built were it not for slaves of african descent.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Very true. Lets also not forget the Chinese.

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Ray Nagin is neophyte politician. A few years ago he was a cable tv executive, then he ran for mayor and won. He has probably been saying stupid stuff all the time.

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ALA Jessie Ventura

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

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Lets suppose Nagin is saying thet Hispanics are a threat is he willing to kill and torture to reach his goal.

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I did not say Nagan would be willing to kill or torture hispanics. I said he wants to eliminate them. He wants to either deport them or cut off the job opportuities for them. It is not the same act as killing and torture but it is the same SPIRIT. It accomplishes the same goal. And it is based on race. He wants a chocolate city. Any white politician that would have made the same speech but said they wanted a vanilla city would be a racist too. Nagan has painted himself as a racist.

Immergrants have often met discrimination. The Chinesse did. After the railroad was finished people were afraid they would settle in and take over. Many Chinesse had to go back to China because they couldn't find work here due to discrimination. The Irish were also dicriminated against when they came here. Many of them were Catholic and the white Protestants here fear they would take over. It is fear that fuels this form of racism. This is not new to America or to any society. It is fear of change and loss of power.

We need to trust our democratic form of government. We need to trust it will serve the people regardless which color the majority might be. So we shouldn't fear blacks taking over or hispanics taking over or asians taking over. We should only fear a change in our democratic form of government.