Stan Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 According to the Washington Post there have been 355 mass killings this year in the US, AND people are saying this would diminish if more people had guns? AND just think, these same people vote. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/ Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Ron Lambert Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 Most of these shootings take place in "gun-free zones." If more teachers were armed, they could stop would-be mass killers in schools. If more people throughout the population carried guns, terrorists would not find such easy targets. In Europe, where guns are totally banned, the people have no recourse but to be helpless victims until finally the armed police or even military can be called in. By then hundreds have died. The founders of our country explicitly stated why they adopted the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution--because a people can only be free as long as the government fears the people, and the government can only fear the people if they are armed. That is the historical fact as explained by the founders themselves. The socialist liberal mindset looks to "Big Government" as the solution to every problem; it puts its faith in the "nanny state" (instead of in God, Who alone can change hearts). In all the world's history, socialism in all its forms has only provided security for a small elite--at the cost of holding down everyone else. The people can only be held down if they are not armed. It is also historical fact that after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese military leaders considered invading the U.S. West Coast--which was virtually unprotected after the destruction of most of America's Pacific Fleet. But they looked at the fact that so many American citizens are armed, and realized they would never be able to pacify the land they invaded. This is what kept WWII from reaching the continental U.S. These things were revealed in documents released by the Japanese after the war. Quote
bonnie Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 quote "The founder of the “shooting tracker” project, the source of these stats, who currently goes by the handle “Billy Speed,” is quoted as saying: “Three years ago I decided, all by myself, to change the United States’ definition of mass shooting.” It’s also not clear how many of those stories, many of them from local outlets, including scant detail are accurate. That's why they include 11 year old's shooting other boys with BB guns where no one was seriously hurt as a "Mass Shooting" These numbers have been refuted. It is not accurate. Are there some that are actually naive enough to believe that a terrorist is going to be deterred by anti gun laws. This couple had a virtual arsenal of killing products in their apt, and in a state with strict gun laws. Of course maybe some believe that gun laws will be abided by,while killing people isn't really a problem. If I am willing to kill innocent people disobeying strict gun laws really won't be a cause for concern Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Stan Posted December 5, 2015 Author Posted December 5, 2015 I do concur that some are challenging this. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
bonnie Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/04/washington-post-gun-violence-declining-except-gun-free-zones/ Ironic that gun free zones have an increase in gun violence. Could it be that the law abiding obey the law and the thugs could care less about the law? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Stan Posted December 5, 2015 Author Posted December 5, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence?CMP=share_btn_fb = Death (1,347 total) = Injury (3,817) Dec 2, 2015San Bernardino, CA Dec 2, 2015Savannah, GA Nov 27, 2015Colorado Springs, CO Nov 27, 2015Sacramento, CA Nov 26, 2015Boston, MA Nov 24, 2015Conway, SC Nov 23, 2015Columbus, OH Nov 23, 2015Houston, TX Nov 23, 2015Minneapolis, MN Nov 22, 2015New Orleans, LA Nov 22, 2015Newburgh, NY Nov 22, 2015Seattle, WA Nov 22, 2015Brownsville, TX Nov 22, 2015Chicago, IL Nov 21, 2015Baltimore, MD Nov 20, 2015Pittsburgh, PA Nov 18, 2015Fresno, CA Nov 17, 2015Murray, KY Nov 16, 2015Round Mountain, AL Nov 16, 2015Youngstown, OH Nov 15, 2015Anderson County, TX Nov 15, 2015Philadelphia, PA Nov 14, 2015Los Angeles, CA Nov 14, 2015Johnstown, PA Nov 13, 2015Jacksonville, FL Nov 9, 2015Indianapolis, IN Nov 8, 2015Des Moines, IA Nov 8, 2015Warren, MI Nov 6, 2015Denver, CO Nov 6, 2015Bakersfield, CA Nov 6, 2015Tallahassee, FL Nov 4, 2015Oakland, ME Nov 3, 2015Harris County, TX Nov 3, 2015Jacksonville, FL Nov 1, 2015Pendleton, SC Oct 31, 2015Colorado Springs, CO Oct 28, 2015Houma, LA Oct 27, 2015Fort Worth, TX Oct 26, 2015Evansville, IN Oct 25, 2015Pageland, SC Oct 25, 2015Phoenix, AZ Oct 25, 2015Four Oaks, NC Oct 25, 2015Washington, DC Oct 24, 2015Bamberg, SC Oct 23, 2015Nashville, TN Oct 19, 2015Calumet City, IL Oct 18, 2015New Orleans, LA Oct 17, 2015Fort Meyers, FL Oct 17, 2015Elkhart, IN Oct 12, 2015DeKalb County, GA Oct 10, 2015Peoria, IL Oct 10, 2015Memphis, TN Oct 10, 2015Charlotte, NC Oct 9, 2015Flagstaff, AZ Oct 6, 2015Baltimore, MD Oct 2, 2015Inglis, FL Oct 2, 2015Baltimore, MD Oct 1, 2015Roseburg, OR Sep 29, 2015Chicago, IL Sep 28, 2015Chicago, IL Sep 28, 2015Cincinnati, OH Sep 28, 2015Dayton, OH Sep 27, 2015Greenville, GA Sep 27, 2015Kansas City, MO Sep 26, 2015Banning, CA Sep 25, 2015Danville, IL Sep 24, 2015Chicago, IL Sep 23, 2015Norcross, GA Sep 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Aug 25, 2015New Orleans, LA Aug 22, 2015Modesto, CA Aug 21, 2015Roswell, NM Aug 21, 2015Cincinnati, OH Aug 21, 2015Durham, NC Aug 21, 2015Pine Hills, FL Aug 20, 2015Starr County, TX Aug 19, 2015Rochester, NY Aug 16, 2015Miami, FL Aug 16, 2015Fort Worth, TX Aug 16, 2015Bennettsville, SC Aug 16, 2015Chicago, IL Aug 15, 2015Orangeburg, SC Aug 15, 2015Pittsburgh, PA Aug 15, 2015Los Angeles, CA Aug 10, 2015Long Beach, CA Aug 9, 2015Forest, MS Aug 9, 2015Detroit, MI Aug 8, 2015Houston, TX Aug 8, 2015Gastonia, NC Aug 8, 2015Blytheville, AR Aug 7, 2015Barre, VT Aug 6, 2015Columbia, SC Aug 4, 2015St. Louis, MO Aug 3, 2015Brooklyn, NY Aug 2, 2015Chicago, IL Aug 2, 2015Brooklyn, NY Aug 2, 2015Baltimore, MD Aug 2, 2015Savannah, GA Aug 1, 2015Orlando, FL Jul 30, 2015Pittsburgh, PA Jul 28, 2015West Frankfort, IL Jul 27, 2015Rockford, IL Jul 26, 2015Kansas City, MO Jul 26, 2015Indianapolis, IN Jul 26, 2015New Orleans, LA Jul 25, 2015Erie, PA Jul 25, 2015Hopewell, VA Jul 23, 2015Lafayette, LA Jul 22, 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Jan 11, 2015Hope Mills, NC Jan 11, 2015Lakeland, FL Jan 11, 2015Tuskegee, AL Jan 11, 2015San Jose, CA Jan 10, 2015Moscow, ID Jan 9, 2015San Francisco, CA Jan 8, 2015Boston, MA Jan 7, 2015Chattanooga, TN Jan 6, 2015Miami, FL Jan 4, 2015Dallas, TX Jan 4, 2015Roanoke, VA Jan 2, 2015Savannah, GA Jan 1, 2015Memphis, TN Dec 29, 2014New Orleans, LA Dec 27, 2014Los Angeles, CA Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Stan Posted December 5, 2015 Author Posted December 5, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence?CMP=share_btn_f Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
CoAspen Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 So if more guns stop violence........Then I reckon we should bring back the wild west!! Some really illogical arguments made about 'arming' more people, especially teachers. When it comes to guns in this country, logic flies out the window. No, I am not against gun ownership. Quote
Aliensanctuary Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 Perhaps gun ownership should be restricted to a certain segment of the population, with no more gun show or gun shop sales to just anybody who has the money. Anyone wanting to buy a gun would have to take a comprehensive gun safety course, undergo psychological profiling, and have a photo ID with phone #'s and address, finger printing, proof of citizenship, employer info, vehicle info, thorough background checks, including criminal history on prospective buyers, and so on. Although this wouldn't reduce the number of guns already out there, it should restrict future ownership. There should also be a license fee, not just small change, either. Gun and ammo sales would take place only in police stations. Of course, probably not so many gun buyers would want to jump through all of those hoops, so they would have to go to black market gun sellers. Undercover agents could bust the illegal gun sellers and jail them for life or send them to the Middle East. By limiting the capacity of all new guns to just one bullet at a time there would be far less opportunity to commit mass murders. Gun ownership by responsible people should never be a problem, but it's the irresponsible, the suiciders, the criminals, and the murderers who are worsening the killing crisis. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Moderators lazarus Posted December 6, 2015 Moderators Posted December 6, 2015 On December 4, 2015 at 19:31:37, Ron Lambert said: In Europe, where guns are totally banned, the people have no recourse but to be helpless victims until finally the armed police or even military can be called in. By then hundreds have died. A few significant errors here. Guns are not totally banned in Europe. Hundreds have not died. You may be thinking of the USA. Hundreds die every month where there are MILLIONS of guns. Europe is safer because there are less guns available. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Ron Lambert Posted December 6, 2015 Posted December 6, 2015 41 minutes ago, lazarus said: A few significant errors here. Guns are not totally banned in Europe. Hundreds have not died. You may be thinking of the USA. Hundreds die every month where there are MILLION of guns. Europe is safer because there are less guns available. Have you completely forgotten what just happened in Paris? Guns are banned in Paris. Everything I said is completely true. How can you possibly even attempt to deny it? Have you forgotten the multitudes who died in Spain from terrorist attacks? Your statement that Europe is safer because there are less guns is absolutely false. How can a sane mind come to that conclusion? Quote
Ron Lambert Posted December 6, 2015 Posted December 6, 2015 When a handful of terrorists where up on the balcony in that Paris nightclub, shooting down at the people below with their automatic weapons, you can bet some of those people below wished they had guns so they could shoot back. I sure would have. Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted December 6, 2015 Moderators Posted December 6, 2015 On 12/5/2015, 8:14:26, Ron Lambert said: Have you completely forgotten what just happened in Paris? Guns are banned in Paris. Everything I said is completely true. How can you possibly even attempt to deny it? Have you forgotten the multitudes who died in Spain from terrorist attacks? Your statement that Europe is safer because there are less guns is absolutely false. How can a sane mind come to that conclusion? Are you talking about Paris, France or Europe. They are different entities. In either case you are wrong. Guns are restricted but not banned. You have no evidence for saying they are banned. The data tells us that Europe is safer. Look up the figures. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Ron Lambert Posted December 6, 2015 Posted December 6, 2015 Far worse than ignorance is determined ignorance. Quibbling, fudging the facts, and any other such tactics always employed by those desperate to defend their anti-gun political philosophy, are not the way to serve the cause of truth in any field. If you think that Europe's approach to management of guns and dealing with terrorism is superior, then you deserve to live there. As I interpret Revelation 8:8, 9, there will very soon be all-out civil war in Europe, that will result in the collapse of some governments, and likely will lead to few or no Moslems being left alive in Europe. Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted December 6, 2015 Moderators Posted December 6, 2015 On 12/5/2015, 11:46:51, Ron Lambert said: Far worse than ignorance is determined ignorance. Quibbling, fudging the facts, and any other such tactics always employed by those desperate to defend their anti-gun political philosophy, are not the way to serve the cause of truth in any field. If you think that Europe's approach to management of guns and dealing with terrorism is superior, then you deserve to live there. LOL. France is a fantastic country. I've been there several times. Paris is nice and I would like to live there if I got the chance. This may help advance our discussion. In France, to buy a firearm, a hunting licence or a shooting sport license is necessary. All semi-automatic rifles with a capacity greater than 3 rounds, all handguns and all rifles chambered in 'military' calibres, including bolt action, require permits. These are known as B1, B2 and B4 type permits. Firearms are divided into eight categories that determine the regulations that apply to their possession and use. France also sets limits on the number of cartridges that can be kept at home (1000 rounds per gun). The total number of firearms owned by an individual is also subject to limits (not possible to have more than 12 authorizations/permits on B1, B2 and B4 type firearms).[98] As of September, 2013, France has a capacity limit of 20 rounds for handguns;[99] one needs a permit for category one semi-automatics that have a capacity greater than 3 rounds. Fully automatic firearms are illegal for civilian ownership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#France At least do the pro gun side justice by arguing honestly and with a basic grasp of the facts. Quote As I interpret Revelation 8:8, 9, there will very soon be all-out civil war in Europe, that will result in the collapse of some governments, and likely will lead to few or no Moslems being left alive in Europe. Civil war in Europe? Maybe that was a typo. How do you have a civil war between nation states? If you are not in possession of the basic facts of geography you may end up with all kinds of fanciful interpretations. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Ron Lambert Posted December 6, 2015 Posted December 6, 2015 The civil war in Europe will likely be between Moslems and everyone else. Islam is attempting to subvert and overthrow Western Civilization. They misjudge the weakness of Christian culture, and do not realize that they will awaken a sleeping giant--the same one that launched the Crusades against them over 900 years ago. Quote
Ron Lambert Posted December 6, 2015 Posted December 6, 2015 The point is, are French citizens--particularly in Paris--allowed to carry guns? Does France allow "open carry," and "concealed carry," as we do in America to those who take the prescribed training course and pass the required exam? Did any of those victims in the Paris mass shootings have any guns on them so that they could have shot back? Did the helpless victims not have to wait until the armed police and military arrived on the scene, before anyone could deter the mass shooters? The only recourse of the helpless victims was for some of the men to walk up the stairs to the balcony, and offer themselves in exchange for sparing their wives. Noble, but ineffective. No way to deal with the evil of mass-murderers. Quote
Members phkrause Posted December 7, 2015 Members Posted December 7, 2015 Even if they could carry a gun, what is that compared to a machine gun??? As soon as people hear that shooting, I'm pretty sure that most if not all would be running for cover, and there hearts pounding with fear!! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Geoarrge Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 It's difficult to say exactly what a given individual is capable of in times of stress, but not everyone is a rabbit. Quote To be an agent of creation is to serve the Creator.
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