Robert Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 The Dynamics of the Everlasting Gospel By E.H. “Jack” Sequeira Chapter 1 – The Sin Problem Since the gospel is God’s power to save men from sin, it is important that we begin our study with a brief outline of the sin problem before we turn to its solution which God has prepared for us in Christ. It is only against the background of man’s total sinfulness and depravity that the gospel of Christ becomes meaningful. The gospel, when accepted and applied to our lives, may be defined by the formula: “Not I, but Christ” [Galatians 2:20]. This formula is expressed in the New Testament in various ways [1 Corinthians 15:10; Philippians 3:3, 8-9]. The most difficult part of this formula when it comes to its practical application is the first half, “Not I.” The reason for this is because we fallen sinful human beings are born ego-centric or self-centered, and naturally want to live indepentant of God [Romans 1:20-23]. A true understanding of the sin problem is the only sure way of destroying all confidence in self and turning to Christ as our only righteousness, hope, and surety. The following is a brief history and analysis of the sin problem. 1. Origin of Sin * Ezekiel 28:14, 15. Sin originated in heaven in the mind of Lucifer, the head of the angelic beings. The Bible does not explain how sin could begin with a perfect being, because sin is unexplainable. Hence, it is referred to as “the mystery of iniquity.” * Isaiah 14:12-14. The essence of Lucifer’s sin was self-exaltation, what the Bible defines as iniquity, which in Hebrew means bent to self [isaiah 53:6]. Hence, the love of self is the underlying principle of all sin, in complete opposition to the principle of God’s government which is founded upon selfless love or agape [see 1 John4:7, 8, 16]. Sin therefore may be rightly interpreted as rebellion against God or His agape. According to 1 Corinthians 13:5, there is no love of self in agape. * Romans 7:7. At the heart of every sin is covetousness or self-seeking. Lust originated with the devil and is not of God [see 1 John 2:15-16]. * John 8:44. In heaven, Lucifer (who became Satan) coveted the position of Christ and therefore desired to murder Him so that he might get Him out of the way (murder in God’s eyes begins in the mind, see Matthew 5:21-22). * Revelation 12:7-9. Sin in the heart of Lucifer led to war in heaven. Satan and the angels who sided with him were defeated and were cast out of their heavenly home. 2. Development of Sin While sin originated in the mind of Lucifer in heaven, it was never allowed to develop in heaven. It was on this earth that Satan and his angels developed sin. Let us see how this was done: * Genesis 1:26, 28. God created this earth for man and, therefore, gave him dominion over it. * Luke 4:5, 6. By deceiving our first parents (Adam and Eve) and causing them to fall, Satan took possession of this world and made it his own; this is based on the principle recorded in 2 Peter 2:19. Please note that Jesus did not question Satan’s claim that the world was delivered to him. * John 14:30. Since the fall of man, Satan has become the “prince of this world.” * 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. Paul refers to Satan as the “god of this world.” * 1 John 5:19. The whole world, apart from the Christian, is under the control of Satan, or as the Greek text actually says, “the wicked one.” * 2 Peter 2:19. Man defeated by Satan is in bondage (slavery) to him [John 8:34; Romans 6:17]. Using man as his tool, Satan has developed a kingdom (the Bible refers to it as “the kingdom of this world”) that is based entirely on the principle of self and which is in complete opposition and contradiction to the “kingdom of heaven.” Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self). In the New Testament and especially in the book of Revelation the term “Babylon” is used as a symbol to represent the spiritual kingdom of this world which is under Satan and is in opposition to God’s kingdom and His people [Revelation 14:8, 17:3-6; 18:1-3]. The basis of this symbol is founded in literal Babylon of the Old Testament, the capital of the once-greatest empire this world has ever known [read Daniel 2]. According to Dan. 4:30, the great city of Babylon was built on the principle of self-love and, therefore, represents a fitting symbol of Satan’s kingdom. In contrast, “Jerusalem,” which represents Christ’s kingdom, is from above and is called “the holy city” [Galatians 4:26; Revelation 21:10]. Because Satan is a liar and a deceiver there is much of this world that appears to be good (this is especially designed to be a trap for Christians), but at the end of the world, when Satan will be completely exposed, it will be seen that the whole world (good and bad) worships the dragon “that deceived the whole world” [Revelation 12:9; 13:3-4]. God has allowed Satan to have his own way and develop sin in this world for some 6,000 years. But the time has come when Satan and his kingdom must be exposed and destroyed forever [2 Peter 3:10-13; Psalm 92:7-9]. But for the fallen human race, held in captivity by Satan, God has made a way of escape [2 Peter 3:9]. This is the Good News of the gospel which He wants all to know and receive. According to Matthew 25:34, God has prepared the heavenly kingdom for men “from the foundation of the world,” while verse 41 indicates that the destroying fires of hell have been prepared only “for the devil and his angels.” According to John 3:16, “God so loved the world [the human race] that he gave his only begotten Son,” so that none may perish, but instead all may have eternal life. Those who respond in faith to God’s love manifested in the gift of His Son will experience the deliverence from the condemnation which is resting on Satan and his kingdom [Romans 8:1; John 5:24]. 3. Sin Defined Before we can proceed to study the gospel it would be well to define sin more fully so that the good news of salvation will be meaningful to us. The Bible uses some 12 different words to define sin; but putting these together we may categorize sin into three basic concepts. These three are all expressed in Ps. 51:2-3. They are: iniquity, sin, and transgression. We will consider each one of them separately. Iniquity The root meaning of this word is “to be bent.” As used in Scripture it refers to our spiritual condition. Note the following texts: * Psalm 51:5. David was “shapen in iniquity” from his very birth. This was his spiritual condition since physically he was handsome [1 Samuel 16:12]. The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14]. * Isaiah 53:6. Two things are revealed in this text. 1. Everyone of us has gone astray, since we have all turned or bent “to his own way.” 2. This own-way-ness (i.e., self-centeredness) is synonymous with iniquity, which was laid upon Christ our sin bearer; and it was this “sin in the flesh” that Christ “condemned” on the cross [Romans 8:2-3]. Iniquity, therefore, is simply seeking our own way, a condition we are born with and which (without a Saviour) makes it impossible to do genuine righteousness, since the law of God requires even our motives to be pure [Matthew 5:20-22, 27-28]. In contrast to iniquity or self-seeking is agape (divine love) which is of God and which “seeketh not her own” [1 Corinthians 13:5]. Our next study will cover this in greater detail. * Isaiah 64:6. Because man by nature is “shapen in iniquity,” all the righteousness produced by him through his own efforts is like filthy rags before God, because it is polluted with self-love. According to Zech. 3:3, 4, “filthy garments” are equated with iniquity. In contrast to these filthy garments of ours (self-righteousness), the white raiment of Christ (His righteousness) is offered to the Laodicean church so that they may be truly clothed, and “the shame of [their] nakedness do not appear” before the judgment seat of God [Revelation 3:18; 10:3-4]. * Matthew 7:22, 23. Self-righteous acts camouflaged or disguised in the name of Christ are exposed in the judgment and clearly identified as works of iniquity (i.e., works motivated by self-love). All Christians must consider this text seriously. Do our works originate from Christ and therefore motivated by agape, or are they the “fair shew in the flesh” [Galatians 6:12]? Are our works the result of a genuine relationship with Christ (i.e, works of faith) or are we working in His name but we really don’t know Him? [see also Luke 13:25-28.] * Philippians 3:3-9. The converted Paul recognizes the worthlessness of his self-righteousness and willingly exchanges it for the righteousness of Christ which is by faith. Once we understand the true meaning of iniquity we will realize that nothing good dwells in us [Romans 7:18] and we will begin to “hunger and thirst” after the righteousness of Christ so freely offered to us in the gospel. Sin The actual meaning of this word is “missing the mark.” In Judges 20:16 the Hebrew word sin (translated in the KJV as “not miss”) is used true to its meaning. Used in a spiritual sense, sin is missing the divine mark or coming “short of the glory of God,” which is His selfless love or agape [Romans 3:23]. Since all men are born spiritually “bent” (shapen in iniquity), it is not difficult to see what Romans 3:10, 12 says: there is none righteous and no one who does good. Man’s sinful condition makes it impossible for him to do anything but sin, unless he has a Savior. That is why the gospel is man’s only hope of salvation. While man does have a free will to choose between accepting Christ’s righteousness offered in the gospel or rejecting it, he does not have a choice between doing sin or geniune righteousness. Man is born a slave to sin and no matter how hard he wills or tries, he will fall short of the divine mark [Romans 7:15-24]. For further study read the following texts: Job 15:14-16; Psalm 14:2, 3; Isaiah 1:4-6; Jeremiah 17:9; Mark 7:21-23. Transgression This word means a deliberate violation of the law, or willful disobedience. Transgression pre-supposes that one has the knowledge of the law. In the spiritual realm, transgression is the violation of the moral law, or ten commandments of God [see 1 John 3:4]. A knowledge of God’s law makes sin to be “transgression.” Note the following: * Galatians 3:19. The law was given to make sin into transgression. * James 2:9. The law convinces us we are transgressors. * Romans 3:20. Through the law we have the knowledge of sin. * Romans 5:20. The law did not solve the sin problem but made it “abound” all the more. * Romans 7:7-13. The law exposes our sinful condition and reveals our total bankruptcy with regards to righteousness. Since sin is a deceiver, it would be impossible for sinful man to fully realize his condition unless God revealed it to him. This He has done by giving the law. The law was never given as a means of salvation or to deal with sin. The law is incapable of producing righteousness in us because of man’s sinful state [Romans 8:3]; the only way that man can be saved is in Christ. The Scriptures clearly state that “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” [Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16; 3:21-22; 5:4]. It cannot make man holy and good because he is sold under sin [Romans 7:12, 14]. But God gave the law to sinful man to be “our schoolmaster [or escort] to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” [Galatians 3:24]. Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 Hi Rob, Jack's definition's of sin and iniquity are selective and appear to be incomplete. I did some research, since I don't accept things without searching matters out for myself and found this. Definition of sin 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin (Sin=Hamartia/Offence) transgresseth (transgresseth=Parabaino/violates a command) also the law: for sin (Sin=Hamartia/Offence) is the transgression (transgression=Parabasis/violation) of the law. 1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; (Sin=Hamartia/Offence) and in him is no sin (Sin=Hamartia/Offence). 1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth (sinneth=Hamartano/to miss the mark and not share in the prize) not: whosoever sinneth (sinneth=Hamartano/morally to sin/to miss the mark and not share in the prize) hath not seen him, neither known him. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin (Sin=Hamartia/Offence) is of the devil; for the devil sinneth (sinneth=Hamartano/ morally to sin /to miss the mark and not share in the prize) from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; (Sin=Hamartia/Offence) for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, (Sin=Hamartia/Offence) because he is born of God. Definition of Iniquity Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. These two instances of the word iniquity are the same word in the Hebrew and do not mean “to be bent”. 05771 `avon {aw-vone'} or `avown (2 Ki 7:9, Ps 51:5 [7]) {aw-vone'} from 05753; TWOT - 1577a; n m AV - iniquity 220, punishment 5, fault 2, Iniquities + 01697 1, mischief 1, sin 1; 230 1) perversity, depravity, iniquity, guilt or punishment of iniquity 1a) iniquity 1b) guilt of iniquity, guilt (as great), guilt (of condition) 1c) consequence of or punishment for iniquity The most likely meaning of iniquity in the context of Ps 51:5 is Mischief, perversity or depravity. Use them in the verse above, it is accurate. Rob this is why I and other's have such a hard time believing all that you quote from Jack. It's just not as he says in all instances. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Robert Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: Rob this is why I and other's have such a hard time believing all that you quote from Jack. It's just not as he says in all instances. Really? Bad judgment call! I simply cut and pasted. Norman I'm really surprised at your stubborn refusal to admit that you "fall short of the glory of God"! This is dangerous to the extreme. As John says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." Rob Quote
Planey Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Rob, I am intrigued. You pick and choose quotes from Ellen White, claiming that sometimes she gets it wrong. She is widely regarded (and reasonably well documented) to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit. On the other hand you seem to have swallowed Jack Sequeira hook, line and sinker. You post very large slabs of his work, sometimes three or four almost indigestible portions in succession. And there are a number of reputable Adventist scholars who disagree in varying amounts with Jack's theology. Perhaps a little less Jack and a little more Jesus would be advisable. Graeme "...not mere reflectors of other men's thoughts." Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Robert Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: She is widely regarded to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit. And Jack is not? In my book Jack is a modern day Paul....He brings the scripture alive. I've studied this out for myself and I've come to the conclusion that Jack is right on the mark.... Quote
Robert Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: Planey said: You pick and choose quotes from Ellen White, claiming that sometimes she gets it wrong. She is widely regarded (and reasonably well documented) to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit. -BC- 1SM -TI- Selected Messages Book 1 -CN- 2 -CT- Ellen G. White and Her Writings -PR- 03 -PG- 37 We [EGW includes herself] have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone areb infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed....In regard to infallibility, I [EGW] never claimed it; God alone is infallible. His word is true, and in Him is no variableness, or shadow of turning. Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Quote: Really? Bad judgment call! I simply cut and pasted Rob, I didn't say that everything you say is from Jack, I said that all that you quote from Jack. Cutting and pasting is quoting. Quote: Norman I'm really surprised at your stubborn refusal to admit that you "fall short of the glory of God"! This is dangerous to the extreme. As John says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." Show once where I said that. In fact I have said in the beginning of my thread on Surrender that I am not fully surrendered but I am moving towards that. I have no thoughts of perfection ever concerning myself. With my background I know better. What I'm saying is that we are falling short but we do not need to continue to do so and the reason we are is becuase we do not believe the Gospel. YOu are saying that we will have some advancement but not much and you leave us in a state of misery never able to overcome the flesh. The Bible states otherwise and so does SOP. Now you expect me to believe that this is new light and that I am to be satisfied in my failures and constant sinning? You can keep that theory, I don't want that at all. You see your reply even reveals that you have no answer for my last post.You point to me and my not wanting to believe that I fall short of the glory of God. That does not answer the truth and the proper translation of the words Sin, iniquity ir trasngression. What I have posted is truth Rob, clear un refutable truth and it does not agree with what Jack or you believe. How can you believe what he is saying. The more you quote him the more I see how far off he is, with his half truths and picking and choosing of SOP and even the NT. I see this clearly now and I am glad we have discussed this to the point we have. I still would like to continue discussing it with you becuase I know that truth will win out and we'll both see it for what it is. At this point I am convinced Jack is wrong in a lot of areas. There are things that are right on but not all and what he uses to prove those things that are off, is what I have a problem with. The main problem I have Rob is this. When a verse is clear and the Greek backs up the translation, then Jack says that it means something different. I tried to believe certain things but I just no longer can because my conscience is telling me it's not right. So I am not angry with him or with you, nor do I have anything against either of you, but I just cannot bring myself to agree with all that he says because scripture doesn't bear him out. So my thinking is this, why do people believe this? What is at the root of this, is it rebellion against EGW? Is it an inability to accept that they are not able to over come so they come up with a theory to cover up their defeat. Is it a huge swing to the other side of legalsim? Why is it that now that I have decided to dedicate my life to God by being faithful in worship and fasting for a deeper understanding that I see this more clealy than before? Why am I less concerned with my works and more concerned with sharing the Gospel with others, and at the same time I see his theory as false? I can't just ignore this Rob these are heart questions that have nothing to do with my being stubborn. Again, I have tried to believe what Jack teaches and just no longer can because it does not hold up to the Bible in many instances. Apart from the Bible and SOP his theory sounds great, but not when held up to the Bible and also SOP, Also I see what it has done to the character of some of my close friends and I don't see a subduing humble spirit that is sweet and touches the hearts of others. It has produced a spirit of exclusion and not wanting to be with God's poeple. That is a warning sign to me. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I posted this in the Surrender thread but thought I'd psot it here too. Last Day Events, page 191, paragraph 5 Chapter Title: The Latter Rain Total Surrender Required God will accept nothing less than unreserved surrender. Half-hearted, sinful Christians can never enter heaven. There they would find no happiness, for they know nothing of the high, holy principles that govern the members of the royal family. The true Christian keeps the windows of the soul open heavenward. He lives in fellowship with Christ. His will is (192) conformed to the will of Christ. His highest desire is to become more and more Christ like.--RH May 16, 1907 This puts us in our place; Laodeceans. How many including myself are living 100% for God and at every moment are thankful or thoughtful for His grace? I can tell you that I am not. I need help and prayer. I know what truth is and I have been led in my life by the Holy Spirit, but I believe that I need to give myself more fully to Christ. There is nothing holding us back from full surrender but we have not believed the Gospel. This is my belief. Am I wrong in this belief? Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Robert Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 Quote: Norman said: God will accept nothing less than unreserved surrender. Half-hearted, sinful Christians can never enter heaven. Then you, EGW or none us will make it! Quote: This puts us in our place; Laodeceans. Typical legalistic thinking! Laodicea's problem is stated for those who can read: "you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." What does Gerry say? Look his answer up: I'm not wretched! What utter blindness...what depths of pharaseism has he fallen into? Laodicea's problem is "self-righteousness"....That's the context! What Laodicea needs is, "gold refined in the fire" [an enduring faith], so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear [the robes of Christ's righteousness], so you can cover your shameful nakedness [i.e., our sinfulness]; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see [how sinful we really are]. Quote: I can tell you that I am not. Then you better had not be "under law"! Quote: I need help and prayer. No...what you need is peace with God through our Lord's doing and dying....You need the peace justification by faith brings.... Rom 5:1 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.... Quote
Robert Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 Quote: Norman said: What I'm saying is that we are falling short but we do not need to continue to do so and the reason we is because we do not believe the Gospel. You are saying that we will have some advancement but not much and you leave us in a state of misery never able to overcome the flesh. The Bible states otherwise and so does SOP. Norm...for someone who professes to keep the law, you just transgressed the 9th commandment: Paul: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.... It doesn't say, "but this won't always be the case." EGW: "We know not one day how strong will be our conflict the next. So long as Satan reigns, we shall have self to subdue, besetting sins to overcome; so long as life shall last, there will be no stopping place, no point which we can reach and say, I have fully attained. Quote: At this point I am convinced Jack is wrong in a lot of areas. And I am convinced you are being blinded and deceived. Two can play that game.... Norm, I love you man....I’m being real hard on you, but in the end I hope it will pay off..... Rob Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Rob, Quote: Norm...for someone who professes to keep the law, you just transgressed the 9th commandment: Rob I had to look up the 9th commandment because I forgot which one it is. You are not right, I have not professed to keep the law. Ihave not ever posted or told anyone, "I keep the law" Then I would be breaking the 9th commandment. Quote: Paul: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.... It doesn't say, "but this won't always be the case." You still have to explain what Paul wrote 2Co 7:1 "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." And 1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. And 1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. And Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Not by our own strength but love for God by the power of the Holy Spirit will we accomplish this before Jesus returns. It can be done now if we only believe. I don't mind you being hard as I am with you as well, I will be respectful though. love ya brother. In Christ Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Rob Quote: No...what you need is peace with God through our Lord's doing and dying....You need the peace justification by faith brings.... Rom 5:1 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.... I am not in despair and I do have peace with God and I am not trying to earn God's favor, I am wanting to be more greatful for what He has done for me. This is what I meant. A greater response to His love for me is what I desire. I am just being honest but again if people see me they will say "he's got a good heart and he loves God." It shows through I am being honest here too not proud. Total devotion in love is what I am aiming for and it will happen by His Spirit. Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
LifeHiscost Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Quote: Norman said: His highest desire is to become more and more Christ like.--RH May 16, 1907 How many including myself are living 100% for God and at every moment are thankful or thoughtful for His grace? Norman I am not a proponent of lackadaisical Christian living , Norm, but I recognize the Christian life as one of continual growth. If one ever became satisfied that they had attained there would be no motive for striving to reach a higher goal. And if a higher goal is a reality, it has to be admitted there is something missing for which we need to continue reaching. Salvation is an ongoing process of which we need not be ashamed unless we are not responding to the pleadings of the Holy Spirit. [:"blue"] "If it is in the heart of man to do the will of God, and man puts effort forth toward this end, then Jesus takes this disposition as man's best service and makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit." [/] EGW [:"red"] "...praising God, and having favour with all the people, and the Lord was adding those being saved (present tense) every day to the assembly." [/] Acts 2:47 YLT [:"red"] "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved (future tense) by his life." [/] Romans 5:10 KJV [:"red"] "It is the same today, for not all the Jews have turned away from God. A few are being saved (present tense) as a result of God's kindness in choosing them." [/] Romans 11:5 NLT [:"red"] "Then those who are physically uncircumcised but keep the Law will condemn you who, although you have the code in writing and have circumcision, break the Law. For he is not a [real] Jew who is only one outwardly and publicly, nor is [true] circumcision something external and physical. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and [true] circumcision is of the heart, a spiritual and not a literal [matter]. His praise is not from men but from God" [/] Romans 2:27-29 AMP [:"red"] "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." [/] Galatians 3:29 KJV Keep looking up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Life, Quote: I am not a proponent of lackadaisical Christian living , Norm, but I recognize the Christian life as one of continual growth. If one ever became satisfied that they had attained there would be no motive for striving to reach a higher goal. And if a higher goal is a reality, it has to be admitted there is something missing for which we need to continue reaching. Salvation is an ongoing process of which we need not be ashamed unless we are not responding to the pleadings of the Holy Spirit. I agree, there must be continual grow, I am saying I want 100% continual praise and thankfulness and to reveal that by a deeper more dedicated life. My question is really this; How many of us are truly satisfied with our response to God's amazing love? I have no concerns about my salvation because I know that I am walking towards the city of God in the assurance of the free gift of salvation. (growth) Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Moderators Gerr Posted January 23, 2006 Moderators Posted January 23, 2006 Your problem is that you think being Laodicean is a permanent condition!!! Is there no point during which we Laodicean ever come into possession of the gold, raiment, & eyesalve? If the Laodicean heeds the advise and buys the raiment, the gold, & the eyesalve, when he/she reads the statement, it still says the same thing. In another thread you told, you need to get out more. Well, I leave my house usually around 8 a.m. & come home shortly after 5 p.m. Now, if I leave at 6 a.m. & come home at 6 p.m. will your statement read differently? If I leave at 3 a.m. and come home at 12 midnight, will your statement read any differently? Gerry Quote
Robert Posted January 24, 2006 Author Posted January 24, 2006 Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Your problem is that you think being Laodicean is a permanent condition!!! I hope not because it is especially true of you! It is a call from self-righteousness.... As Jesus said, "YOU DO NOT REALIZE"...that you are wretched in comparison to His life of selflessness as opposed to your life of self-seeking.... Besides, true commandment keeping is, "that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439] What part of that don't you understand? Quote
LifeHiscost Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Quote: Norman said: I am saying I want 100% continual praise and thankfulness and to reveal that by a deeper more dedicated life. Hello Norm. A worthy goal indeed. Part of the success of it is probably helped by recognizing God as sovereign under all circumstances. Have you ever seen the phrase, "Praise the Lord anyway"? [:"red"] "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." [/] Matt 11:29 NKJV Quote: My question is really this; How many of us are truly satisfied with our response to God's amazing love? Norman I don't think there's ever anything wrong with seeing ourselves as falling short of the glory of God. It's only recognizing what the Lord tells us is true. What I do find myself sometimes needing is peace when I just finished asking our Father for His peace. If I am continually walking in dissatisfaction after asking Him to work out His will in my life, it is the same as accusing Him of failing to fulfill the prayer I offered to Him. OTOH if after examining myself I find nothing to be worked on, it seems I need to ask for spiritual eyesight, a prayer that will always be answered. [:"red"] "Examine and test and evaluate your own selves to see whether you are holding to your faith and showing the proper fruits of it. Test and prove yourselves [ not Christ]. Do you not yourselves realize and know [thoroughly by an ever-increasing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you--unless you are [counterfeits] disapproved on trial and rejected? " [/] 2 Corinthians 13:5 AMP Keep looking up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted January 24, 2006 Moderators Posted January 24, 2006 Quote: Robert said: Quote: Gerry Cabalo said: Your problem is that you think being Laodicean is a permanent condition!!! I hope not because it is especially true of you! It is a call from self-righteousness.... [:"blue"] Hope not? Then at what point is this no longer true? After I have become homeless & ignorant? [/] Quote: As Jesus said, "YOU DO NOT REALIZE"...that you are wretched in comparison to His life of selflessness as opposed to your life of self-seeking.... Besides, true commandment keeping is, "that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439] [:"blue"]You keep bringing up the homelessness of Jesus. You seem to forget that He had a home for 30 yrs of His life. Was He selfish & living for self when He had a home? [/] Quote: What part of that don't you understand? [:"blue"]The utter helplessness of your Jesus & your God to deliver a sinner like me from sin. I have asked Jesus to clothe me with His raiment, yet you claim I'm still naked. I have asked Jesus to give me His Holy Spirit to heal my blindness, yet you claim I'm still blind. I have asked Him to give me the gold, the faith of Jesus, yet you claim I'm still wallowing in poverty. Yep, your Jesus can do nothing for me!!! [/] Gerry Quote
Clio Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Gerry, It's the difference between Jesus and True Jesus. The side of the Adversary teaches His impotence. The side of Abba teaches His power, cloaked in grace and mercy. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place.
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