Was Paul a misogynist?

[Wingnut]

The other day my brother-in-law was visiting.  He had been to a Mighty Man conference where men are taught to take charge of their households for Christ.  180 000 men [only] drive long distances to camp out in the sticks, to hear the main speaker exhort them every day to be men.  Then, when he is finished, they break into small groups where they pray for each other and…(my mind was wandering at this stage).

He then went on to describe the long-drop toilets sitting under the baking sun.  These consist of a honeycomb of dank holes covered with plastic lids, and surrounded by see-through hessian for privacy. He said these conditions forced him to drive miles to the nearest town every time he needed to do a 2.

I was shocked.  I was horrified.  I was indignant.  I would have taken a swallow dive into those toilets with my mouth wide open rather than to have to endure sitting in small groups with men, to mentor them, to cry at their stories, to discuss their and my family problems, to hug them, to console them and to do all these "sissy" things.  I thought this was a Mighty Man conference he went to, not a cryathon. 

Because I like to stir, I asked my wife, who was listening, if she would want me going to the next Mighty Man conference.  My son rolled his eyes like Dad was being a plonker again, and my wife gave me that withering look of "Yes Mr Big Mouth in company, but wait till we are alone".  I duly shut up, knowing I was pushing my luck.

What are the Christian roles of man and woman, husband and wife?
Let's read Paul, ignoring the fact that a man is about to tell all women, how to be real women.  I am fascinated Paul. Please tell me about your ideal Christian woman.

"The natural use of the woman," is sex.  That is what women are useful for. (Rom 1:27)

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman." (1 Cor 7:1).  The best state for men is to squash your interest in women, eschew sex, and become good Catholic priests.

"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (1 Cor 7:2).  For you compromising, Christian weaklings, get married then.

"For I would that all men were even as I myself." (1 Cor 7:7) The gold standard is to stay single.

"But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned;"  Thanks Paul, I feel so much better now.

"the head of the woman is the man" (1 Cor 11:3)  Great, I get to be the brains of the outfit.  Does that put me above all women, or just my wife?

"but the woman is the glory of the man." (1 Cor 11:7)  Being a trophy wife is biblical.

"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (1 Cor 11:9)  That should make you women feel so special, that you were made for us.

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." (1 Tim 2:11) women were made to be seen, not heard.

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Tim 2:12).  Uppity women are anathema.

"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (1 Tim 2:14) so being spineless is better than being duped.

1 Tim 5
11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
The above is a list of names Paul calls young Christian widows -  "wanton..having damnation…cast off the first faith…idle…tattlers, busybodies".
The cure for these young ladies having all this time to get together and chat, is, they should rather revert to the "natural use of a woman" which is to remarry, have sex, have babies i.e. do something useful.

"I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house," (1 Tim 5:14)  And the only good place for a woman, is at home, preferably barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.  

You don't believe me?
"keepers at home" (Titus 2:5) That's your place woman.

How should women dress?
"… that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;" (1 Tim 2:9)  So women who go to hairdressers are doing so against Paul's considered advice, the little Jezebels.  
As is wearing jewellery, or even a Donatella Versace evening gown. 

And to go with their drab appearance they should adopt a "shamefaced" demeanour.  Don't just stand there woman, assume an ashamed pose.  You must have done something to be ashamed of, even if it is just looking attractive.  

Just being your gorgeous selves naturally leads us weak-willed men astray.  And God forbid you wear a bikini on the beach.

Thank you for your replies in anticipation.  I know you will confine these to addressing the scriptures I quoted, rather than shooting the messenger.

[Robert]

Like I said on the thread "Agape: the fruit of resting in Christ":

Quote

 We stand righteous by faith "in Christ Jesus".  That phrase "in Christ" you will only find in the Apostle Paul's writings.  That's why there's a hatred among some here on CA against Paul.  If the devil can sidetrack believers and get them to look at their legalistic performance and build pride in that he's got them.

http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/64476-agape-the-fruit-of-resting-in-christ/

You are attacking Paul! The devil is behind this criticism of him.  You might be ignorant of this, even honest, but I'm telling you God is not behind your endeavors. 

Robert

[joeb]

In a word, NO.

[Lauralea]

It sounds like you copied this from somewhere. Not too many on CA would wear a Versace gown and obviously this is satirical. And no Paul is not a misogynist. This is written almost like an unbeliever not like someone who has a clear understanding of the text. Shamefacedness is modesty or a lack of inapppropriate boldness. Broided hair had strands of gold elaborately woven in. And not to judge but personally I find a nice tankini with shorts more appropriate than a bikini. Some say women at times were interrupting the service with questions. Paul also commended Phoebe an early church leader and spoke of Priscilla. I am also not sure if some of the details of behavior  were cultural. Paul did say he thought he had the word of the Lord about remaining single  in that day and time but said it was him saying it.  Paul also told Onesimus to return to Philemon his master.

[Wingnut]

1 Tim 5
11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
The above is a list of names Paul calls young Christian widows -  "wanton..having damnation…cast off the first faith…idle…tattlers, busybodies".

Anyone care to explain this one away culturally?

[Lauralea]

1 hour ago, Wingnut said:

1 Tim 5
11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
The above is a list of names Paul calls young Christian widows -  "wanton..having damnation…cast off the first faith…idle…tattlers, busybodies".

Anyone care to explain this one away culturally?

He said elsewhere not to support them as widows IIf tgey were  under 60. It sounds like a widows pension. Maybe tgey took some kind of vow. Not something we do today. I cannot edit this post. Sorry about the typos.

[Kevin H]

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Wingnut said:

1 Tim 5
11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
The above is a list of names Paul calls young Christian widows -  "wanton..having damnation…cast off the first faith…idle…tattlers, busybodies".

Anyone care to explain this one away culturally?

Simple and was basically answered by Lauralea above. Widows were supported by the church, and among the young there was a tendency to do these things. Paul is saying that they have plenty of good years left in them and instead of just living off the church and becoming gossips and busy bodies, that they should not retire and live off the church until they are old.

[Kevin H]

As for 1 Cor 7, this was written when Paul was expecting Jesus' return to be imminent. Jesus warned "Woe to sucking mothers" and Paul was just applying that principle for the events that could have happened had the Gospel continued to spread as at first.

In Ephesians we find Paul's actual view of marriage: That it is used to develop a Christ like character so that we can present ourselves to him without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. This was Paul's view when not facing the imminent second coming.

Thus we find that normally we are to follow Paul's advice in Ephesians, but that there are times and situations where things happening around us are so difficult that we should follow Cor.7