Stan Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Most of us who get alerts when the Adventist name is mentioned, did not get anything on this, Why? Because they will not use the Adventist Name, yet they will take Adventist Tithe and offering.(from higher institutions) No wonder we are not known, except by our self. AND as you may have guessed, I am not ok with that. Many other Universities and Hospitals do carry our name. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-le-0130-saturday-loma-linda-san-bernardino-20160130-story.html Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 31, 2016 Members Posted January 31, 2016 that *is* weird.... why would LLUMC not even mention being affiliated with the Adventist church??? I wonder if it was intentional? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Stan Posted January 31, 2016 Author Posted January 31, 2016 Most Hospitals use your name, as do many of our Schools of Higher learning.. Why can't IIW us the adventist logo? it would help brand each other better... etc etc etc etc rudywoofs (Pam) 1 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 31, 2016 Members Posted January 31, 2016 agreed... It almost seems as if LLUMC is embarrassed about the SDA connection — and what sort of message does *that* send???!!! Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Stan Posted January 31, 2016 Author Posted January 31, 2016 If enough people are concerned enough, this can be fixed. but it is going to be a battle. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Outta Here Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Maybe they could just go by the name, "Loma Linda University Christian Health" That would cover it, right? Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 1, 2016 Members Posted February 1, 2016 49 minutes ago, Aubrey said: "Loma Linda University Christian Health" That would cover it, right? I don't know... it seems too general. Just having "Christian" in the name could evoke the idea that LLUMC was related to "Christian Science"... not exactly a mainstream medical philosophy. I think it's important that LLUMC be associated with the SDA church. If it isn't, then it ceases to be a beacon of light and a witness. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 Once upon a time it was known as The College of Medical Evangelists, if my memory is correct. The name was changed when the above name became associated with negative implications. With the passage of time, the SDA denomination took steps to sever the legal relationship between the denomination and our health-care institutions. That may have been legally correct (and it may not have been). But there were implications of so doing. As the denomination took legal steps to sever the relationship, why should we expect that they should retain any portion of the SDA name? In short, at the present time, our health-care institutions, in the United States, are legally not a part of the SDA denomination. Quote Gregory
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 That is an incorrect statement. Adventist Healthcare is a part of the denomination. That is why they are allowed to use the name of the denomination as part of their name. The denomination has a policy (NAD WP C47) setting the standards and qualifications to have denominational status, which is to say, whether an entity is a part of the denomination. Adventist Healthcare entities satisfy the requirements of that policy. Naomi 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 Yes, Tom, I understand your point. It can be said to be a part of the denomination in the same sense that Amazing Facts is a part of the denomination. But, as you well know, the legal relationship was severed as I stated. It does not have at the present the exact same legal relationship that it once had. On that basis I stand by my statements while acknowledging your additional comment. For greater accuracy it might have been better if I had said: Loma Linda University is an Adventist institution that is now not legally a part of the denomination. Quote Gregory
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 What is now Loma Linda University was established in the 1906 - 1910 time frame. NOTE: This extended period of time includes the initial opening to the time certain legal registration was accomplished. In those early days it was known as the College of Medical evangelists, or CME. NOTE: For legal reasons, this name is still in legal existence today. It has not gone out of legal existence. Those of you who understand corporate law will understand why this situation remains. During the time period of 1961 - 1967, or thereabouts, what had been popularly known as CME transitioned to what also became legally known as Loma Linda University. With the passage of time, the name Loma Linde University, Health Care became legal. Quote Gregory
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 21 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said: Yes, Tom, I understand your point. It can be said to be a part of the denomination in the same sense that Amazing Facts is a part of the denomination. But, as you well know, the legal relationship was severed as I stated. It does not have at the present the exact same legal relationship that it once had. On that basis I stand by my statements while acknowledging your additional comment. That part of you statement is included in my response as also being incorrect. The legal relationship was in fact not severed. It was changed. It is a different legal relationship, but still clearly a legal relationship. That is quite different fro saying it was severed. The change did not severe the relationship with the denomination but redefined it in a way to better protect both the Church entities and the healthcare entities from vicarious liability exposure from each other's activities. Trust me on this. What I am speaking of is a primary area of my responsibility on behalf of the denomination. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Stan Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 AMAZING Facts, is apart of the denomination, and has been since the inception. The are audited by the GC auditors, and are 'owned' by the Northern California Conference, before that they were owned by the Chesapeake Conference. They are not an independent ministry as some have claimed. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 I say it is beside the point of this topic because this brief bit in a newspaper is not the legal description of the corporate relationships, not about them, nor should it be. Note carefully the mention of at last 4 or five other healthcare entities. Can you conclude merely from this very short note in the LA Times who or what each is legally affiliated with? Maybe the two university hospitals. But I can assure you that even their name does not define the legal relationship, nor is it in any way legally conclusive of what legal relationship those facilities have to the university that is identified as a part of their name. The question is really more of a PR issue. Is it relevant for this short article in the LA Times that LLUMC is affiliated with the Adventist Church? Not really. It is well known in Southern California. The talking points and subject is not even about the Church. And I don't think it is any secret anyway. Naomi 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 Tom, I understand and agree with your comment as to the legal relationship being changed. In the beginning the College of Medical Evangelists was considered an integral part of the denomination and its ministry to the same extent as was considered a SDA congregation. That legal relationship was severed and a new relationship was established. [NOTE: I am aware that there is still today a legal existence of the CME corporate body.] At one time the denomination owned Harris Pine Mills (HPM). At that time, it could be said that HPM was an Adventist institution but not a part of the denomination, although the denomination owned it. In short, I am saying that when the denomination changed the legal relationship with what had been CME, there are natural ramifications that have occurred. The relationship has changed. Yes, it is a legal change. Yes, it is an Adventist institution, but it no longer has the same legal relation with the worshiping congregations of the SDA denomination. You are helping me to clarify my choice of words and I appreciate that. I do not allege that you are incorrect in what you say. But, I also believe that it cannot be said that my statements are flat out wrong, just needed some better construction perhaps. Quote Gregory
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 Stan, I am aware that Amazing Facts is owned by the Northern California Conference and is not an independent ministry. Thank you for clarifying. Quote Gregory
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 What you initially said was reflective of a common misperception about the current status of Advenist Healthcare. I just want to stop that misperception from being perpetuated here in our discussion. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 I appreciate you doing that. I always appreciate clairfication when I poorly word something, which I do at times. Words are important. Quote Gregory
JoeMo Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 If memory serves me right, the Adventist health care system was in severe financial straits several years ago; and the legal relationship between Adventist health care and the denomination was revised to "fence off" the denomination and educational system from creditors in case the health care system went bankrupt. I acknowledge that I may not have my facts completely straight; so don't take this to the bank. I would guess Tom W. could clarify this. Quote
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 3, 2016 Moderators Posted February 3, 2016 JoMo: Generally true, I believe. As to "severe financial straits,"? Quote Gregory
JoeMo Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Gregory Matthews said: JoMo: Generally true, I believe. As to "severe financial straits,"? Like I said, Gregory, my memory of events ( as well as the reliability of some of my sources) may be faulty. I was pretty active with certain independent ministries at the time; and they may have exaggerated the situation. A couple of these ministries had an issue with the denomination; and eventually implied the denomination was Babylon. That's when I left them. Quote
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 JoeMo, I think you have suggested what was more likely the reality of the financial situation - critical ministries exaggeration. It may have been exaggeration from lack of accurate information and a tendency to guess. With an agenda, guess usually ends up missing the mark. There was a period of time of significant borrowing to update facilities and services to meet current standards and community demands for healthcare. The risks were not all related to debt. Healthcare is a high risk activity all by itself. Risk/Debt aversion among those critical of healthcare would tend to result in an exaggerated assessment of the risks. A lot of the critical ministries were opposed to modernization of our healthcare services, thinking we should maintain a 19th Century approach, the Sanitarium approach to healthful living. If one studies what was being done in those days, it was more like what would now be a spa resort than current hospital healthcare. On the broader reorganization effort to manage/reduce vicarious risk among related entities, it should not be assumed that the risks were all running on a one way street. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 On January 31, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Stan said: Most of us who get alerts when the Adventist name is mentioned, did not get anything on this, Why? Because they will not use the Adventist Name, yet they will take Adventist Tithe and offering.(from higher institutions) No wonder we are not known, except by our self. AND as you may have guessed, I am not ok with that. Many other Universities and Hospitals do carry our name. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-le-0130-saturday-loma-linda-san-bernardino-20160130-story.html Trying to get back on topic... I do agree with your concerns about proudly letting the world now we are Adventists and that especially the flagships of our institutions likewise clearly identify themselves as Adventist. However I think that a picture is worth more than a a few hundred words in the LA times: Notice the words under the name of the Medical Center. JoeMo 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted February 3, 2016 Administrators Posted February 3, 2016 Now visit its website and time yourself on how long it takes you to discover that it is a Seventh-day Adventist entity. Hint first page, scroll to the bottom... read the "About Us" page... Read about its history, its mission/purpose... Naomi 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Stan Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 This may be worth watching again, it is the point behind this thread. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
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