Since people are "in Christ", can they be "detached from Christ"?

[Robert]

The title is a question that Samie asked from the thread "'In Christ' - the gospel as taught by Paul". His question deserves its own thread because,

a] It's an excellent question

and

b] the answer might help clarify some issues on the "in Christ" motif.

Robert

[Robert]

Allow me to start with Galatians 2:19,20  The context here is about Christian living, but in this context is revealed the gospel.  Let's examine it:

"For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me..."

The personal pronoun "I" is used here in a general sense.  Paul is applying this generic "I" to all believers. 

"For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ;  yet I live"

If we go to Romans 7:4 we find the same concept: "You also died to the law through the body of Christ"

How can I, the individual, be alive and yet dead to the law "in Christ Jesus"?

 

 

[Robert]

47 minutes ago, Robert said:

How can I, the individual, be alive and yet dead to the law "in Christ Jesus"?

Apparently I, Robert the individual, didn't die "in Christ" approximately 2000 years ago. If I did die then why am I here typing this post? 

Since I, Robert, didn't die then what died "in Christ"?  

Answer: My, your, corporate, fallen humanity died in the body of Christ.

What do I mean by our "corporate, fallen humanity"?

Turn to Acts 17:26

"He (God) made from one (Adam) the whole human race"

Now go to Genesis 5:1

"In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made He him; 2 Male and female created He them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."

Notice Moses uses Adam in the plural, i.e., "mankind".  Even Eve was taken from Adam's side indicating "the whole human race", "male and female" was "in Adam" at creation. 

Now, what happened when Adam sinned?  Romans 5:12 is what happened:

"Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world (Greek : "kosmos" - the human race), and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned (in Adam)"

Adam's personal transgression polluted the entire human race within him with iniquity.  "Iniquity" is not the same as transgression.  Transgression is the willful disobedience to a command or law whereas iniquity is a condition we are born with.  Simply put we are born bent-to-self or even better we are born only with self-love and not agape love.

Now let's look at a comment from Ellen White:

"As related to the first Adam, men (mankind) receive from him nothing but guilt and the sentence of death." [9 MR 236.1]

Are we born "guilty" of Adam's personal transgression as the doctrine of original sin suggests? 

Answer:  No, absolutely not.  That concept is an affront to God's love & justice.

Then what does Paul mean by "all sinned" in Adam?  Better yet what does EGW mean by "we receive from Adam nothing but guilt"?

Answering this question has major implications to understanding the truth as it is "in Christ".

 

[Robert]

25 minutes ago, Robert said:

Then what does Paul mean by "all sinned" in Adam?  Better yet what does EGW mean by "we receive from Adam nothing but guilt"?

All "sinned" in Adam means that when Adam transgressed God's command (see Gen 2:16,17) our corporate humanity "in him" was polluted and ruined with the principle of self-love and therefore as individuals we were born guilty because we share his fallen life.  We are, after all, the multiplication of his life through procreation.  Thus "in Adam" we stand unfit for heaven, or guilty of indwelling sin, plus our own personal sins when we reach the age of accountability. That's why Paul states, "in Adam all die".

[Robert]

But let me answer Samie's question: Since people are "in Christ", can they be "detached from Christ"?

Yes, but I need to elaborate more....

[Robert]

38 minutes ago, Robert said:

Thus "in Adam" we stand unfit for heaven, or guilty of indwelling sin, plus our own personal sins when we reach the age of accountability. 

Now is it our fault that we have in our members this bent-to-self (iniquity/self-love)?  No!  It's not our fault, it's Adam's fault.  Nevertheless, thanks to Adam, we are born to a ruined, condemned race unfit for heaven.

Now, how about some good news?

But first I'll have to repeat the bad news:

"So then as through one transgression (Adam's) there resulted (historical past tense) condemnation to all men"

Now the good news:

"even so through one act of righteousness ("the last Adam") there resulted (historical past tense)  justification of life to all men." Rom 5:18 NASB

Therefore what Adam passed to us, i.e., a condemned humanity, Christ, the last Adam, has reversed and thus justified "all men" unto life.  This is the very opposite of the condemnation we have "in Adam".

"In Christ" we are born, not as a child of the first Adam, but as a child of the living God.  God sees all newborns as they are "in Christ" and not as they are "in Adam", unless they reject Christ upon reaching the age of accountability.  Then they are responsible for their own personal sins plus their situation "in Adam".

 

[Samie]

Robert;

You answered "Yes" to my question which is the topic of this thread. As to "When & How", I surmise the following was your response:

Quote

"In Christ" we are born, not as a child of the first Adam, but as a child of the living God.  God sees all newborns as they are "in Christ" and not as they are "in Adam", unless they reject Christ upon reaching the age of accountability.  Then they are responsible for their own personal sins plus their situation "in Adam".

As to the "When", you said it is upon reaching the age of accountability; and as to "How", you said it is by rejecting Christ. Rejecting implies the person had come to know Christ. Should it not had been better for him not to know Christ? He would not have rejected Him and he would have remained "in Christ"? Can you elucidate on this?

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Samie said:

Rejecting implies the person had come to know Christ. Should it not had been better for him not to know Christ? He would not have rejected Him and he would have remained "in Christ"? Can you elucidate on this?

Every person who has reached the age of accountability is given light. 

John 1:9 The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

God gives light through His Spirit, either directly (through His Word -  Ps 119:160) or indirectly, through what had been created (see Romans 1:20).

 

[Samie]

Robert;

There's no problem I guess with what are in Scriptures. Sorry to say this, but I guess it is in your position. Why would God illuminate one, directly or indirectly, with something that would become the avenue for his ceasing to be "in Christ"?

Scriptures tell us God wants all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth (1 Tim 2:3,4).  Definitely, the knowledge God gives to one is for him to be saved, that is to remain "in Christ", rather than that which God revealed to him causes him to cease being "in Christ".