Why do we discard the Communion bread and wine?

[LLHBeck]

Last evening our church had our annual Agape Feast. Yesterday as I was preparing some gluten free communion bread for  some of our members who cannot eat it, a thought came to me. Why do we discard the left over, blessed communion bread?? I know the church manual says to do it, but where does the custom originate??  I am sure the early Christian church did not do it, they could not afford to. I have not found a Bible president for it, maybe I just don’t know where to look. OR is it a throwback to the Catholic Church where the priest supposedly changes the bread to the body of Christ, so any leftover has to be discarded so as not to “desecrate the body of Christ?” To me it seems a waste of precious food!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

that's a really interesting question!

I think it does have to do with other denominations belief in transsubstantiation.

But really, the unleavened bread used for communion isn't very tasty.  And if the grape juice has already been poured, I don't think putting it back into the container would be a very good idea.  However, I don't see anything wrong with using the grape juice (that was left in the container) for other purposes .  A blessing isn't usually given over the bread and wine until it's set out in the sanctuary (at least that's the only way I've seen it done).

 

[Ron Amnsn]

1 hour ago, LLHBeck said:

Why do we discard the left over, blessed communion bread?? I know the church manual says to do it, but where does the custom originate??

The communion service is derived from Passover.  That's why unleavened bread is used.

Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?” And He said, “Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, “My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.” ’ ”  The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples.  (Matthew 26:17-20)

What is done with the communion leftovers is probably derived from God's Law of Moses where any leftovers from the Passover sacrifice were to be burned before morning.

‘They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread dand bitter herbs. ‘Do not eat any of it raw or boiled at all with water, but rather roasted with fire, both its head and its legs along with its entrails. ‘And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire.  (Exodus 12:8-10)

Since Paul tells us that Jesus is our Passover sacrifice (1Cor 5:7)  and Jesus spoke of the wine and unleavened bread as representing his body and blood (Matt 26:26-28), it would make sense to deal with the leftovers accordingly.

Since the first-century believers were still celebrating Passover as a Scriptural feast once each year, destroying the leftovers may not have been much of an issue.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Ron Amnsn

[Kevin H]

I was going to say the same thing as Ron but not nearly as well. The bread and juice has been consecrated to the Lord and set aside for a special holy use and as other things in the Bible of the consecrated, the leftovers destroyed.

[8thdaypriest]

23 hours ago, Ron Amnsn said:

The communion service is derived from Passover.  That's why unleavened bread is used.

Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?” And He said, “Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, “My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.” ’ ”  The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples.  (Matthew 26:17-20)

What is done with the communion leftovers is probably derived from God's Law of Moses where any leftovers from the Passover sacrifice were to be burned before morning.

‘They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread dand bitter herbs. ‘Do not eat any of it raw or boiled at all with water, but rather roasted with fire, both its head and its legs along with its entrails. ‘And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire.  (Exodus 12:8-10)

Since Paul tells us that Jesus is our Passover sacrifice (1Cor 5:7)  and Jesus spoke of the wine and unleavened bread as representing his body and blood (Matt 26:26-28), it would make sense to deal with the leftovers accordingly.

Since the first-century believers were still celebrating Passover as a Scriptural feast once each year, destroying the leftovers may not have been much of an issue.

Originally, the Israelites were commanded to eat unleavened bread for 7 days.  We do that - at my home.  We celebrate the Passover with unleavened bread, and wine, and bitter herbs, and supper.  We do not have meat, because Jesus was the "one true sacrifice forever".   There are no "leftovers" until the start of DAY 8.   We rest on the first day and the 7th day of the week long Feast of Unleavened Bread. 

A good question might be:  Why did the LORD command then to eat unleavened bread for 7 days?  Jesus was not in the grave for 7 days.  They left Egypt on Day one.  They went 3 days out of Egypt, then crossed the Red Sea.  Where WERE they on day 7 ? 

Maybe the LORD just wanted them to have enough bread made, to last for 7 days.  Or maybe the fulfillment is future. 

[Ron Amnsn]

9 hours ago, Seventh Day said:

Because they found the room already prepared, they only had to "prepare" the "bread" and the "wine"--- which neither of was 'ingredient' or 'food' or 'part' of the passover meal that consisted of a lamb roasted over fire and eaten "the FLESH" between skin and bone and blood-LESS of the ALREADY "killed" lamb, roasted "WHOLE" ---the ACTUAL preparation and passover meal . . . NOTHING of which the disciples did.

We don't know who prepared the bread and the wine.  The owner of the house may have prepared those as well.

The Passover night in Egypt was different from subsequent Passovers in some ways.  In Egypt the Israelites slaughtered the lambs in their towns in Egypt, but later God instructed that the Israelites could not sacrifice the Passover in their towns-- only in the place where God would choose to establish his name. (Deut. 15:5-6)  As slaves, the Israelites may not have had any wine for the Passover meal in Egypt. Later God instructed that they were to bring the tithe of their wine (and other things) to the place where God would choose to set his name, and there they would consume it (as well as strong drink and other things) as they feasted (Deut 14:23-26).  Another difference was that in Egypt God told the Israelites to eat standing up and ready to travel, but later they ate Passover reclining.

Would it really make a difference whether the disciples prepared the Passover or the man who owned the house prepared the Passover?  Jesus told his disciples to tell the man ‘The Teacher says, “My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.” ’  Unless Jesus was a false prophet, he actually did keep the Passover with his disciples at that fellow's house.

10 hours ago, Seventh Day said:

Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30 took place "in the night" of the 14th day of the First Month; the old passover meal would have taken place the next day "at the First Night" of unleavened bread on the 15th day of the First Month, but never realised because "Our Passover" and "Lamb of God" replaced the passover AS ITS OBSERVANCE "once for all".

The Bible never says anywhere that the observance of Passover was replaced by anything-- that is just man-made Christian tradition (similar to the notion of Sunday-keeping). 

Also, the "for all" part of the phrase "once for all" never appears in the Greek text of the New Testament. The Greek word means emphatically "just once".  The phrase "once for all" is how the translators have chosen to render that in English. Unfortunately, the "for all" part of that phrase can imply a replacement of something, so people mentally insert after "for all" whatever thing they feel should be replaced or whatever concept they want to convey .  Thus we have ended up with spurious meanings such as "once for all sacrifices" or "once for all time" -- meanings which are not actually found in the original Greek passages.  However, those meanings are deeply entrenched in the traditions that were handed down to us.

Determining which day of the month was the 14th was not so straightforward when Jesus celebrated Passover with his disciples.  The sighting of the first sliver of the new moon was used to determine the beginning of each month.  If Jesus and his disciples were in Galilee at the beginning of the month, they could have sighted the new moon a day earlier than it was sighted in Jerusalem, if there had been haze or clouds in Jerusalem partially obscuring the sky near the western horizon.  Thus Jesus and his disciples could have celebrated the Passover meal on the correct day for Passover according to their own sighting of the new moon, and then Jesus could have died the next afternoon on the correct day for Passover according to when the new moon had been sighted in Judea.

[Kevin H]

In Jesus' day the different Jewish groups would have different ways of figuring out what day Passover would be.  The evidence is that Jesus had the last supper at an Essene monastery. The Essenes would have had Passover on the Tuesday night of that week when the temple would have Passover Friday night.

Jesus would have had Passover with the Disciples on Tuesday night. Get arrested, have a short inquiry, then be taken across the courtyard to the holding cell as Peter denies him. Spend the rest of Wednesday in the cell. Then Thursday would be the trials, Thursday night Pilates wife have the dream to have nothing to do with him and Friday morning on the cross and Jesus died when the temple was to sacrifice the Passover lamb.

[Gregory Matthews]

In Jesus' day the different Jewish groups would have different ways of figuring out what day Passover would be. 

True.

This is one of the reasons why there are major problems with determining exactly which day/year Christ was crucified.

 

[Kevin H]

For further study:

http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=52

 

Here is a good book on all the feasts of the land and their application to the gospels:

http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=33

 

This one is a little pricy but has good photos and illustrations:

http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=69

 

[Ron Amnsn]

On 3/10/2016 at 2:06 AM, Seventh Day said:

“~(Deut. 15:5-6)~” . . . 12:5…Take it to verse 11!

Yes, I meant chapter 12, not chapter 15.  Thanks.

But I don't understand what you want me to notice by taking it to verse 11.  It looks like those verses also show that the Passover in Egypt was different than subsequent Passovers.

On 3/10/2016 at 2:06 AM, Seventh Day said:

And the passover they would observe only once in and out of Egypt under the Cloud which was Christ. Therefore no general rules applied then—not even “~(Deut 14:23-26)~”. 

I'm afraid your statement is too concise for me to get your meaning.  I think I agree that the rules of Deut. 14 didn't apply to the Passover in Egypt (if that's what you meant) because the instructions in Deut. 14 regarding tithe weren't given until about 40 years after the Passover in Egypt.  However, those rules did apply after the Israelites entered the Land of Promise so there were a number of centuries when wine would have become part of the annual Passover meal.

It sounds like maybe you're trying to say that there were only two "real" Passovers -- the one in Egypt and the one where Jesus died.

[Ron Amnsn]

On 3/10/2016 at 2:26 AM, Seventh Day said:

Because He emphatically stated He would NOT eat of that passover,

That depends on what meaning you force onto the words of Jesus.  Or which Greek manuscripts you choose to accept.  Some manuscripts quote Jesus as saying he would not eat Passover again.

[Ron Amnsn]

On 3/10/2016 at 2:57 AM, Seventh Day said:

Just so people mentally insert after "for all" whatever they feel must be implied should be continued.

Those who accept the whole Word of God do not need to mentally insert anything after the non-existent "for all" in order to continue following the instructions that God gave to the Israelites concerning the Passover feast.   Originally God commanded the Israelites to observe the Passover as a memorial day and to do it throughout their generations.  He did not command them to do it only until Messiah came, nor only until "type met anti-type", nor until something future was fulfilled.  God told them to observe Passover throughout their generations.  That's what God's Word says.  Exodus 12:14-17:

1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, ...
14 “This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations, as a statute forever, you shall keep it as a feast. 15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven out of your houses, for if anyone eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. But what everyone needs to eat, that alone may be prepared by you. 17 And you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day, throughout your generations, as a statute forever.”

If someone teaches differently than the Word of God, should we accept the new teaching and discard the Word of God?

[Ron Amnsn]

On 3/10/2016 at 10:48 AM, Seventh Day said:

Read the KJV-Greek interlinear GOSPELS’ full record of The Last Week, here, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Jesus%20se%20Laaste%20Pasga.pdf, pages 66-/107-141ff.

I'm sorry, most of the commentary on this link seems to be in a language I don't know.  What is it that we're supposed to glean from this that we can't glean from an English translation, or from another interlinear, or from the origninal Greek ?

[Ron Amnsn]

On 3/10/2016 at 10:48 AM, Seventh Day said:

Christ is the end of the Law;

This seems to be taken from Romans 10:4 where most English translations say something like, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."  However, this translation teaches people to think something that Jesus commanded his followers to not think.  Jesus commanded, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;"

In Romans 10:4 the word translated as "end" is the Greek word telos, which can mean end, but it can also mean goal or aim.  In 1Timothy 1:5 the same form of telos is translated, "The aim of our charge is love" (ESV) and "The goal of this command is love." (NIV)  So Romans 10:4 could also be translated as " For Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes," which agrees with the the teachings of Jesus and with the context of Romans 5 and with the rest of Scripture.  Paul himself testified, "I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets" (Acts 24:14 NIV) which would have been a blatant lie if Paul had actually been teaching the Romans that Christ is the end of the Law in Romans 10:4.

So you can choose whether you want Paul to be a liar who teaches contrary to Jesus and the rest of Scripture, or you can give up the notion that Christ was the end of the Law.

[phkrause]

This is how the CJB translates Romans 10:4

For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts.

[stinsonmarri]

When we as Adventist will stop following the doctrines and tradition of me, maybe just maybe we understand the truth about the Holy Convocation where we should be taking YAHSHUA'S Supper. But we need to know the truth of the passover supper which was not a day but a meal. YAHSHUA on the same day and time gave a New Supper because HE became our PASSOVER not on the cross folks, but in the Garden. We do not understand the Holy Convocation because they are the Statutes that were given to Moses with the Commands Laws. Read Ex 24:12 before you start to jump on me please. I would to discuss these things without people taking my eyes and think I am this offshoot person. I am a member of the Church but as THE HOLY SPIRIT for understanding in to all truth. It is time to wake up and if Trump do help you to see that, I don't know what will. Oh yeah Ben who is being use by Trump, Satan once again making look like we got crazy people in our faith. What are we going to do just continue to the Ladiocean Church?

Blessings!