Is the world getting better or worse?

[Bravus]

I'm interested in people's world views. Over all, do you think the world is getting better or worse?

Hopefully we can be mindful of the rules of avoiding religion or politics in this forum, and just talk from our own perspectives (although I think it's unavoidable that those perspectives are informed by our religion and politics).

[Bravus]

It's not a trick question. I'm quite happy to show my hand. I think that, while many terrible things happen, the world is getting better. Life spans are longer, wars are fewer (rumours of wars, on the other hand... ;)), things that would have killed us a generation ago are survivable, people over all are coming to understand our shared humanity... 

I think it's tempting but quite unfortunate to buy into an 'everything used to be better and is getting worse' narrative. The evidence, as I see it, doesn't really support that.

But by showing my hand I don't want to shut down the conversation: I'm genuinely very interested in others' perspectives.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Mostly subjective, to be sure, but from where I sit:

In terms of safety, I think the world in general is getting worse.

In terms of disease control, it's better.

In terms of altruism (which I consider a virtue), it's worse.

In terms of communication abilities, it's better.

In terms of literature, about the same.

In terms of sports, slightly worse.

In terms of music, slightly worse.

In terms of television programming and theatrical arts,  a lot worse.

In terms of world economics, it's worse.

In terms of manners, it's worse.

I could go on, but in my estimation, the world and its inhabitants are on a downward trend.

[Liz]

I personally think it's getting worse. We may be living longer but look at all the "new" diseases there are, and while 100 years ago one died of a lot of things that we can now either cure or at least live with, the food is so far removed from the natural source that it is pretty much lab created, which brings about its own set of problems. People in general want to pop a pill that will fix whatever, than get fresh air, sunshine, exercise and plenty of water. Isolation and depression seem to be on the rise, and I blame social media for that, because it is really anything but "social". Drug/alcohol use/abuse seems to be on the rise or at least it is around here. And there have been more than one family willingly give up their children because they just couldn't afford them and they were tired of fighting life. In our area we have so many in need of foster care that unless broken bones are in the equation they won't be taken.

But then you are around young people ready to take on the world, and I'm around recovering addicts/alcoholics who've had the world run them over.

[Stan]

Many things are getting better. Not all.

 

Investing timing, there was a report on the news tonight CITYTV in Toronto, stating that people have more things, including freedom, etc  but the happiness/satisfaction level is down, people congregate for spiritual things, via a different methods than their grandparents, example was certain types of social media, and find it lacking..  They talk about an old term Bohemians, not sure how that fit in.

[Stan]

The most thrilling moment for me, was when I felt a certain satisfaction that is hard to describe and a purpose in life. That happened in the midst of an spiritual understanding, hard to explain.

[Gerr]

There are many things that are better.  These have been enumerated by others.  The oceans are definitely worse because of what we have dumped in them.  Air quality is better in LA & worse in Beijing.  What the Bible says though is that "evil men & impostors will wax worse & worse." 2 Ti 2:13.  So I believe it is the spiritual condition of the unregenerate that continues to get worse as we near the end of time.

[CoAspen]

I have questions about being worse, same or better. For me it is hard to measure because of the availability of knowledge, instantly. Fifty, hundred years ago were things really better? Our records of that time are limited in comparison to what we have today. Life is a lot better for the reasons Bravus listed. Pam's list is subjective as she said. I would agree with some but not others.

My religious training has predetermined that is only gets worse. Looking at reality, it is better.

Just driving to work on a daily basis, (not much longer), listening to what comes out of peoples mouths, one could seriously believe in it getting worse. Selfishness is this country is definitely on the rise, but that is only one factor.

Bottom line, I think....perspective.

 

[Gail]

Hmmm... Good question!

As a sense of community diminishes I foresee a decline in virtues that used to be considered noble and admirable. I'm not sure how many nowadays consider themselves really safe.

Although information abounds we still see evidence of ignorance. I fear more violence in everyday living, apart from war situations.

[Tom Wetmore]

I see the answer as very much a mixed bag.  As has already been suggested, some things worse some things better. But that is more of a myopic perspective.  On balance, I am inclined more toward the view that overall things are improving, better than they ever were in the past.  For me the simple question is, if I could irreversibly switch places to a different time in earth's history would I be willing to do so? The answer is no.  Time travel to visit of course would be fun and educational.  But to be stuck in another time to live out the rest of my life, I don't think so.  The reason is simple. I would likely die in a few years without the advantages of modern medicine that we all take for granted.  Life would be much harder. Risks much greater. Solutions to fundamental problems of life far fewer and far less certain.  Survival, opportunities for success far less certain.  Life is better now.

[JoeMo]

For me it's a mixed bag.  As far as technology, progress, access to goods and services, things are better.  Worldwide, economically, environmentally, militarily, and politically, things are getting worse.  IMHO, social and political progress are not keeping up with technological progress.  Plus, we have ongoing global conflicts of interest.  All of humanity is looking for ways to cure diseases, improve safety, and generally extend human life.  Yet we have over 7 Billion people on this planet; growing at a rate of about a billion people every decade.  Many of the problems we have - global warming, pollution, increasing conflict at personal, regional, religious, ethnic, and global levels, pandemics - are all related to overpopulation and the systemic overconsumption of everything nature provides - fertile soil, safe drinking water, fossil fuels, ecological diversity, fish, etc.  Furthermore, the burgeoning population growth is occurring mostly among the poorest and least educated nations of the world, while populations of affluent, well educated nations is flattening out - even decreasing in some areas.  This leaves fewer and fewer people to care for those who can't adequately care for themselves.  In the long run (like 10 - 20 years), I feel like things will get worse for most of the people in the world up to a point where it looks like all life on earth is doomed.  And then, all of a sudden, there is a great upheaval in the heavens and on earth, and everything will become amazingly wonderful - like heavenly!

[Gail]

I had to quickly check to see whether this was posted in Original Thoughts, and it isn't- whew!

I'm not sure if a link is the same as a quote... But Pastor Harold had a thought in this vein this morning:

Pastor Harold's view on what America is becoming 

While it is true that medical knowledge has increased, there are many who do not have access to all the medical help they need. And it is not the information's problem.

Evil leaders have come and gone throughout history. We in the West have lived in relative peace for years but there are places in the world where their time of trouble has come and gone.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

If I could keep the knowledge I have now, I'd much rather live the rest of my life at a different time...

[Liz]

What time period would that be, Pam?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

mid 19th century... probably beginning in the 1840s..  (I'm an "old soul"..  )

 

[Tom Wetmore]

3 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

If I could keep the knowledge I have now, I'd much rather live the rest of my life at a different time...

I would tend to agree but in the scenario I had in mind it wouldn't work that way.  If we were transported back in time to truly be as it was we would be without any knowledge of the present or any intervening years  future to what era we got stuck in, with no real advantage over anyone else in that time period.  Although if we could be transported back to say the mid 19th century with all the current knowledge  of today, we would be rather frustrated I think since we couldn't easily invent or develop the solutions we take for granted without a whole system of technology and inventions and discoveries that would make it possible. (Sort like the back to the wild west scenario of the Back to the Future movies. And if we tried to share our "ideas" of how to change things or what progress could bring, in terms of technology and science, I would be afraid they would lock us up in the asylum!!  

[JoeMo]

It would be amusing to be able to take some of today's knowledge and technology back 50 or 100 years.  Could you imagine taking an IPod with 32 Gigs of music on it back to the 1950's?  Or a cell phone with a bunch of videos on it - maybe make a video of folks back then and show it back to them?  You obviously couldn't call anyone or check your Facebook; but just showing people the content would blow their minds!  Take it back 200 years, and they would think you are a deity.

[BigMark]

My parents grew up in the 1940s. Women with loose morals were looked down upon. Politicians at least put up a front that they were honest, although they probably weren't. Things were horrible for blacks back then. Homosexuality disgusted most people, today it's praised. A question was raised in sabbath school a couple of weeks ago if we were to go back to the early Christian church after Jesus want to heaven, what would we find? If some of the members of those churches could be teleported to today, what would they find? Back in the 40s people pitched together more. People settled their differences with a good old fashioned fist-fight. Today we sue. 2 Timothy 3 : Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, etc. etc. ....having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof. This is NOT describing the world. The world has always been like this. It's describing the church. My question is, are we like that? My answer is: I see those bad traits in some individuals, but not a whole lot at this point. What are your thoughts?

[BigMark]

On 3/3/2016 at 11:04 AM, JoeMo said:

For me it's a mixed bag.  As far as technology, progress, access to goods and services, things are better.  Worldwide, economically, environmentally, militarily, and politically, things are getting worse.  IMHO, social and political progress are not keeping up with technological progress.  Plus, we have ongoing global conflicts of interest.  All of humanity is looking for ways to cure diseases, improve safety, and generally extend human life.  Yet we have over 7 Billion people on this planet; growing at a rate of about a billion people every decade.  Many of the problems we have - global warming, pollution, increasing conflict at personal, regional, religious, ethnic, and global levels, pandemics - are all related to overpopulation and the systemic overconsumption of everything nature provides - fertile soil, safe drinking water, fossil fuels, ecological diversity, fish, etc.  Furthermore, the burgeoning population growth is occurring mostly among the poorest and least educated nations of the world, while populations of affluent, well educated nations is flattening out - even decreasing in some areas.  This leaves fewer and fewer people to care for those who can't adequately care for themselves.  In the long run (like 10 - 20 years), I feel like things will get worse for most of the people in the world up to a point where it looks like all life on earth is doomed.  And then, all of a sudden, there is a great upheaval in the heavens and on earth, and everything will become amazingly wonderful - like heavenly!

Global warming, is now called climate change since it was proven that the planet is not warming up. It was called global cooling in the 1970s and another ice age was predicted. Sorry, JoeMoe, I don't believe in it. Hmmmm, I think I could be arrested for that statement. Don't tell anyone! Also, every man, woman and child on this planet could fit into the state of Texas and have a 3 foot circumference around them. We're not running out of room, but certain cities have everyone jammed up in high rises. 

[Bravus]

Um, no, it was not 'proven that the planet is not warming up'. Look at the data. It's very simple indeed. The warming is irrefutable.

[JoeMo]

3 minutes ago, BigMark said:

Global warming, is now called climate change since it was proven that the planet is not warming up. It was called global cooling in the 1970s and another ice age was predicted. Sorry, JoeMoe, I don't believe in it.

I just read that the DoJ is considering charges against climate change deniers.  Whatever you do, don't admit you're a denier on Club Adventist.  People will think your a kook.

Seriously, I do believe in climate change - the climate changes every day around Denver.  I just son't believe man has much to do with climate change; the sun does.

[BigMark]

8 minutes ago, David Geelan said:

Um, no, it was not 'proven that the planet is not warming up'. Look at the data. It's very simple indeed. The warming is irrefutable.

 

I've been studying the data since it first came out. Besides, since when has any government ever cared about its citizens? I would say, only some of our founding fathers. Man made problems, the big and mighty government to the rescue. Trust us, we're here to help you! No thanks. 

http://www.naturalnews.com/052179_global_warming_science_fraud_globalist_control_agenda.html

 

[Bravus]

When you decide to trust the people who lie to you more than you trust the facts, then indeed the world is getting worse.

I should note that, once we accept that the world is warming, there are a large number of options for what we do about it, and those are legitimate arguments to have, and there are a wide variety of reasonable positions to take.

But to deny that the warming is happening at all is simply to deny reality.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

2 hours ago, BigMark said:

 

I've been studying the data since it first came out. Besides, since when has any government ever cared about its citizens? I would say, only some of our founding fathers. Man made problems, the big and mighty government to the rescue. Trust us, we're here to help you! No thanks. 

http://www.naturalnews.com/052179_global_warming_science_fraud_globalist_control_agenda.html

 

It's really hard to take anything seriously that comes out of "naturalnews.com"...  According to professionals in heatlh and science, "Natural News" is quackery, at best, and outright fraud, at worst, and preys on conspiracy theorists, and those whose scientific knowledge is very narrow and/or limited.

• Gallery of Wackos – Mike Adams
• Rational Wiki – Mike Adams, “…even the quacks think he’s a quack”
• Science Blogs Respectful Insolence – Mike Adams articles
• Science Based Medicine – When we should call a quack a quack
• Healthy Wize report “the legend of Mike Adams and the reality”
• Confessions of an #sshole Skeptic, “Mike Adams wants to kill your kids”
• Forbers: A bad week for supplements industry – “… even Internet quack Mike Adams…”
• Skepacabra: Debunking Mike Adams’ 10 Biggest Lies About Healthcare in America
• Encyclopedia of American Loons: #1 Mike Adams
• Free Thoughts: Five worst quacks in the world
• One Bad Apple: “Mike Adams, the self proclaimed Health Ranger, is as insane as he is insensitive”
• Quack Watch – Mike Adams
• Cafe Mom – Mike Adams is a douche
• Skeptoid – Top Ten Worst Science Sites, Mike Adams Natural News #1
• Skeptico – Mike Adams Fails Again
• Rat Bags – “Mike and his site reached the top of the competition by his total disregard for the truth and the imagination he shows in inventing the lies he tells about medicine”
• Before it’s news: “Among cranks, Mike Adams is a living, breathing example of crank magnetism. There’s no form of quackery he doesn’t endorse and/or sell.”
• Natural News’ Mike Adams Adds Global Warming Denialism to HIV/AIDS denial, Anti-vax, Altie-med, Anti-GMO, Birther Crankery by Mark Hoofnagle
• The Legend of Mike Adams and the Reality, by C. Thomas Corriher and Sarah C. Corriher The Health Wyze Report.

[Unchained]

I wonder what the inhabitants of Sodom would have said if we asked them this question? They had great material wealth, a prosperity that was unmatched in their region. It wasn't without reason that Lot and his family sold their livestock and became city dwellers… I'm sure you guys get my point. What we view as progress isn't necessarily an improvement in God's eyes.

Sure, we have been given many blessings that our forefathers didn't have, especially here in the western world we are extremely privileged from a material point of view. But then again, we've paid a price for all of this. I live in a so-called Christian nation, one of the wealthiest nations on Earth, but only 5% of our population goes regularly to Church. We were much poorer 100 years ago, but back then church attendance was nearly universal.

Yes, science has advanced. But we should also keep in mind that the wealth and prosperity in our world are unevenly distributed. Some of us are so well fed that we could afford to lose weight, but there are still hundreds of millions who go hungry to bed every night. Almost 800 million people globally are suffering from chronic malnourishment. This might be a little less than it was a decade ago, but it demonstrates that our conceptions of progress might be somewhat flawed. I have an easier life than my great-grandparents, but many people are less fortunate than myself.