NBC Offends Christians Again

[Dr. Shane]

NBC Offends Christians Again

Quote:

---

AFA pointed to wire reports saying that Britney Spears will make a guest appearance on the April 13 "Will and Grace," playing a conservative Christian sidekick to Sean Hayes' homosexual character, Jack.

|

When Jack's fictional TV network, Out TV, is bought by a Christian TV network, Spears hosts a cooking segment called "Cruci-fixin's."

---

Quote:

---

"NBC does not treat Jews, Muslims or other religions with such disrespect. Yet the network demonstrates a deep of hostility toward followers of Christ."

---

[Nicodema]

We could all learn something from this incident, actually.

We feel this sort of thing is demonstrating hostility -- or at least disrespect -- toward Christians, particularly when compared with how NBC treats Jews, Muslims, or persons of other religions. At least, that is the statement quoted above from the AFA.

However, it is clear to see from what is cited that obviously the writers simply regard this as a joke, a bit of levity, a little "poking fun" with a "harmless" pun. (Cruci-fixins / crucifixion) They would probably be flabbergasted that people take offense at it when it's "just a bit of harmless fun."

I propose we all let this be a lesson to us with regard to how we individually treat one another. When someone is offended at one's "humour", it is no longer "humour". It is offensive, and should one persist in it, it will be regarded as a demonstration of at best disrespect and at worst, open hostility. We need to ask ourselves, is that really the kind of impression we wish to convey toward another person?

[Dr. Shane]

It is a far cry from shows like the Waltons and Little House on the Praire that demonstrated church life as part of natural part of a family's life.

Many in Hollywood seem so out of touch with Christian values that faith itself seems like a big joke to them. Yet the media does tend to give more respect to eastern religion and Islam than it does to Christianity. This should come as no surprise to us.

"If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." John 15:18, 19

Jesus gave this little rebuke to His own brothers,

"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." John 7:7

However it is enough to keep me from tuning into the mainstream networks.

[Bravus]

I dunno, it seems to me as though Christians take offense too easily. They have a massive imbalance of institutional power in the US in their favour, compared to all other religions. They should be a little more secure and a little less prickly. If something is silly, let it be silly, don;t get all up in arms about it.

'Charles Spurgeon preached in 1857 that Christians are to "comfort the afflicted." From that, a trustworthy maxim for ministry has become "comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable."'

American Christians are far too comfortable...

[Dr. Shane]

I agree that Christians shouldn't be easily offended. We should expect to be rideculed, made fun of, blackballed, hated and even killed by those that disagree with us. Yet many are easily offended - including some of us here at Adeventist Forum.

Yet that doesn't mean we should be silent when the entertainment industry makes filth. The world hated Christ because He exposed their wicked deeds. The followers of Christ should do no less. When the entertainment industry makes anti-Christian movies, music and video games, those loyal to Christ should sound the trumpet.

It isn't about changing the world - it is about sounding a warning. There always have been and always will be wicked people. 100 years ago the entertainment industry was made up of live theaters, circuses and piano bars. The employed in these were generally considered to be of disputable charachter. I don't know if it was true then, but it certainly seems to be true today.

[Bravus]

I guess so... but Britney Spears on Will & Grace just doesn't seem like that much of a threat to me... already discredited.

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Shane said:

I agree that Christians shouldn't be easily offended ... Yet many are easily offended - including some of us here at Adventist Forum.

---

Well, as always, when the moral high ground belongs to oneself, it is one's duty to set the example and be the better man. In this case I would think that would consist of (1) not being one of those easily offended (setting the example); and (2) taking great care to not wound one of those "little ones" who is easily offended (being the better man).

Darn that moral high ground, it always carries such difficult responsibilities, doesn't it.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

Yet that doesn't mean we should be silent when the entertainment industry makes filth. The world hated Christ because He exposed their wicked deeds. The followers of Christ should do no less. When the entertainment industry makes anti-Christian movies, music and video games, those loyal to Christ should sound the trumpet.

---

Perhaps I am too old for this thread...

Seems to me that the onus is on the Chrisitan to better himself...Not the intertainment industry which catters to all sorts of likes and dislikes....Thier 'offering' is no better than a grocery store that carries all sorts of foods, some canned, some fresh, different varieties...IF a Christisan participates in the grocery store by buying some food, he makes his choices with his purchase. If he doesn't like what the grocery store sells, he can go to another and try it there, if he so chooses, or grow it himself. Your arguement is tantamount to the grocery carrying only one type of food, canned and fresh. And no grocery story will only carry pears...There are other fruits out there, ie peaches, cherrys, apples, bannanas, tomatoes, ect. If the entertainmnet industry makes only ONE type of entertainment, who wouldn't get tired of the same ol' thing...? Who wnats to go to a movies that carry exclusively supposed christian themes? There are other movies that directly affect the christian's life without carrying christian themes...The movie "Crash" is one. There are others as well...

Back in the 70's, I went to a film fest of supposedly "Christian" film...The people that provided these films for us, actually screened the films and removed the worst from our viewing...But even then, there were so many that were just plain hokey, and stupid and so poor in quality that we complained to the guys who put on the film fest. And they said that these were better than the ones they screened!

We can not put the blame for our bad choices on the entertainmnet industry...rather it is our choices that directly shows what choices the entertainment industry should put out.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

Thier 'offering' is no better than a grocery store that carries all sorts of foods

---

A bookstore would be a better example. There are some bookstores that all Christians would want to go to. Those sell only Christian books. There are some bookstores no Christian would want to go to. Those sell XXX books. There are other bookstores that have a mix of acceptable and objectionable books, like Barnes & Noble and in these bookstores Christians need to have a little fair warning of what is objectionable and what isn't.

So it is with television and movies. There are some channels or in the case of movies, "ratings" that all Christians would want to avoid. There are others that have a mix of objectionable and acceptable and still others, like 3ABN, that are completely acceptable. I see the mainstream networks getting near the point where they have only objectionable programming.

Quote:

---

Back in the 70's, I went to a film fest of supposedly "Christian" film... many that were just plain hokey, and stupid and so poor in quality

---

I think the same could have been said about contemporty Christian music in the '70s too. CCM has really matured into a high quality product with talanted artists. Christian movies and TV programs are now doing the same. "End of the Spear" is the latest example and a well-made Christian movie.

[Amelia]

Let us consider the recent European publishing of political comic depictions of Muhammad. How did the Muslims react to that? Why they threatened to blow up some churches unless there was an apology within 24hrs. They take the desecration of their prophet and beliefs very seriously. Im not saying we should become zelots but somewhere along the line of "freedom of speech" etc, Christianity, Jesus and God lost. There is just no respect anymore. Like in football we are trying to regain yardage but the end times has the ball.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

Im not saying we should become zelots but somewhere along the line of "freedom of speech" etc, Christianity, Jesus and God lost. There is just no respect anymore. Like in football we are trying to regain yardage but the end times has the ball.

---

My question is what are we trying to do? Are we to defend God? Are we attempting to make society such that it reflects God's character? If so, why? What is the reason for this changing of society into the image of what society think is God or at least reflects His values?

Is it not because we SHELFISHLY want a society in which we do not feel threaten by non-Christian values? We guys don't want to feel tempted to lust by some lady wearing provockative clothing. We ladys want all guys to be gentlemen toward us and want all the ladies to like us...

Just a bit of a secret to those of you who harbor these views....tain't gonna happen. Jesus said He didn't come to take us out of the world...yet...but that the world would not have dominion over us....

We are called by God to be witness only..a witness, in this case, is one who is an advocate for God. We do not convert people...That is the Holy Spirit's job. We do not bash people over the heads with laws and expect those laws to make Christians out of the people...If you force people to be Christian, are they truely Christian?

[Dr. Shane]

No, we are not trying to change society. In my earlier post, I stated I wasn't trying to change the world. The purpose of making an issue of the wickedness is to sound the warning.

If a warning is not sounded, many will sit in front of their televisions and absorb all kinds of wickedness. After we sound the warning, many will notice the wickedness when they watch TV and will say to themselves, "Hey, this stuff is really bad. Maybe I should watch something better."

[Nicodema]

Neil I was thinking about these very things this afternoon while driving home from work. I listen to a pretty conservative radio station (Christian) because I like the hymns and praise music they play, and some of their Bible features as well. They do a localized "community" feature every afternoon which I usually turn off but today I listened to it

I won't provoke a new debate by discussing the contents of the program, but suffice it to say, If people are going to obey God they should obey God because they choose to do so, not because human laws are set up to discriminate against them to their hardship unless they do. It should be their choice (legally) whether to obey God in terms of something that is purely a matter of conviction & morality (not a criminal issue). This guy was so full of hot air and wound up, all blather and harrumph. If I ever get that wound up speaking in public, I pray it will be over something that really matters.

The beast isn't even full throttle manifest yet and I'm already sick of it ...

[Dr. Shane]

I will quickly admit there are many in the Religious Right that do hope to change society and most of us here will agree that will never happen. However our mission shouldn't be to change society. Our mission is to save one soul at a time.

As human beings we have a variety of choices about how we spend our free time. If there were some super idiots that found swimming with sharks or aligators a form of fun entertainment, it would be appropriate for us to talk among ourselves about how stupid they were. Our talking may not change them but it may prevent some of us from getting fooled into joining them.

I will suggest that watching many programs on televsion or in the theater is like swimming with sharks and alligators in a spiritual sense. I listened to a Christian movie critic once. He attends worldly movies so he can write reviews about them. He stated that the infulence of the theater is so great that he spends twice as much time in Bible study than he does in the theater.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

However our mission shouldn't be to change society. Our mission is to save one soul at a time.

---

I totally agree...We are to save souls...The quesiton is "How do WE do that?" God has spoken to us, saying "You are my witness". A witness is one who advocates for someone. We advocate God. We tell of the wonderful things that He has done for us. What we don't do is proclaim what "wickedness" is...We don't create laws to encourage godlike behavior and bemoan about how the whole world has gone to that other place in a handbasket.

Quote:

---

As human beings we have a variety of choices about how we spend our free time. If there were some super idiots that found swimming with sharks or aligators a form of fun entertainment, it would be appropriate for us to talk among ourselves about how stupid they were. Our talking may not change them but it may prevent some of us from getting fooled into joining them.

---

If various forms of entertainment were, as you descibe, as dangerous and deadly as sharks in a swimming pool tank, then, yeah, you might be right. But it is not. And those who take up hanggliding or free falling from an airplane with a parachute or some other dangerous entertainment, KNOW the risks involved. If not, they deserve the results of thier foolishness and we are not gonna help them anyways.

But to insist that christians are to pass laws to provent homosexuality, or abortion, or any other un-christian, is plainly not part of the Christian dogma. We are not here to pass laws against behaviors that don't agree with Chrisitanity. We are here to witness for Christ. We are NOT here to take away the Holy Spirit's job of convicting of sin. WE are NOT God.

I agree with Nico-

Quote:

---

The beast isn't even full throttle manifest yet and I'm already sick of it ...

---

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

I will quickly admit there are many in the Religious Right that do hope to change society and most of us here will agree that will never happen. However our mission shouldn't be to change society. Our mission is to save one soul at a time.

---

Shane, for me it goes way beyond simply the fact that it will "never happen" and crashes straight smack into the realm of apocalyptic prophecy. For despite the fact it will never happen, their attempts to make it happen eventually produce the phenomenon recorded in the latter half of Revelation 13: the second beast which makes an image to the first beast before it. That is to say, a nation whose administration and lawmakers behave as did papal Rome in (1) legislating matters of conviction & morality which are not themselves intrinsically criminal matters -- ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD -- and (2) then persecuting the TRUE children of God who stand in defense of the gospel and walk in obedience to the Lord.

This is the chief wickedness I personally feel a burden to sound the warning about. If the warning is not sounded, many will fall prey to believing the beast-power and its characteristics really do represent the True and Living God, to their very great hurt in numerous ways. If we sound the warning faithfully, many will take note of the difference between the True and Living God and the counterfeit imitation of the beast, take their stand upon the side of Jesus, proclaim His soon return, and in turn warn others of what is coming just prior thereto.

One soul at a time, just as you said.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

their attempts to make it happen eventually produce the phenomenon recorded in the latter half of Revelation 13

---

That is speculation and it insults the Christina faith of others. I choose not to go there. Who am I to sit in judgement on another's professed Christianity? It is one thing to say that the Islamic or Jewish believer is in a false relgion but it is quite another thing to say, "I am a Seventh-day Adventist therefore I am right. You are Assembly of God, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc and therefore you will fulfill the latter part of Revelation 13" I believe that to be speculation. We just don't know how prophecy will play out in that much detail.

Consider this: This past year evironmentalists started blaming global warming for the increase number of huricanes. These environmentalists want to force their environmental morality on others which includes shutting down industries and limitting the carbon-based fuels. It would not be much of a jump for the "angel of light" to show up, blame the Sabbath-keepers, and the environmentalists to jump on that bandwagon. We just don't know how it will play out.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

f various forms of entertainment were, as you descibe, as dangerous and deadly as sharks in a swimming pool tank, then, yeah, you might be right. But it is not.

---

Many will burn in hell because they were led astray and enticed by the entertainment industry. That is a much more tragic end than being eaten by sharks or alligators.

Quote:

---

We are NOT here to take away the Holy Spirit's job of convicting of sin.

---

"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Isa. 58:1

"Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul." Ezek 3:17-19

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Shane said:

Quote:

---

their attempts to make it happen eventually produce the phenomenon recorded in the latter half of Revelation 13

---

That is speculation and it insults the Christina faith of others. I choose not to go there. Who am I to sit in judgement on another's professed Christianity?

---

With all due respect, Brother Shane, THAT is a speculation, and insults the Christian faith of others. Who are you to sit in judgment upon another's Bible-based convictions concerning the crisis that is right before us?

Quote:

---

It is one thing to say that the Islamic or Jewish believer is in a false religion

---

Is it? Is it really???

Quote:

---

... but it is quite another thing to say, "I am a Seventh-day Adventist therefore I am right. You are Assembly of God, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc and therefore you will fulfill the latter part of Revelation 13"

---

But that is neither what I have said nor even how I think about the matter. This is pure speculation and judgment on your part against me -- and is completely erroneous. Nothing you have written here represents my views OR how I arrive at them. I would happen to completely agree with you that no one should say "I am right because I am SDA; you are wrong because you are [fill in denomination here]." That kind of attitude has nothing, repeat, NOTHING to do with the way I think.

Quote:

---

I believe that to be speculation. We just don't know how prophecy will play out in that much detail.

---

Shane, we do know this much: we know that a beast represents a nation. We know that the first beast represents papal Rome, which acted as a combined religio-political power to persecute the people of God for a period of 1260 years. We know that the second beast will "make an image" to the first beast, that is, arrange itself similarly to Rome, as a religio-political power in nature, and ultimately persecute God's people. We also know that in THAT day -- and THAT day only -- will the dividing lines be clearly drawn, and regardless of WHAT denomination one belongs to today, there will be only TWO classes in THAT day -- those who believe the representation of God offered by the Beast and those who know the True and Living God. And yes, praise God, many of our brothers and sisters from other faiths will see clearly the issues and choose to stand with Jesus. I mean that to read exactly as it says -- I am NOT using "stand with Jesus" as some kind of euphemism for "become SDA like me."

Why is it so important for you to believe it will be anything BUT "religious" people who will bring this about, when the Bible is so very clear upon this specific point?

Nico

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "That is speculation and it insults the Christina faith of others."

Shane, I do not understand Nico's post in the same manner that you seem to understand it. I see her as speaking in general terms, with no specific application to an individual. You seem to personalize it. I think that you have misunderstood her. But, she can speak to that if she cares to do so.

To me, she is focusing on how she looks at a passage in the Bible, and not people.

[Dr. Shane]

There are many Adventists that worry themselves into a paranoid coma that the Religious Right is the same group of people that will fulfill the prophecies in the latter half of Revelation 13. These Adventists see the Religious Right as more dangerous than the entertainment industry.

No error accepted by the Christian world strikes more boldly against the authority of heaven, none is more directly opposed to the dictates of reason, none is more pericious in its results, than the modern doctrine, so rapidly gaining ground, that God's law is no longer binding upon men... Terrible were scences enacted in France when atheism became the controlling power... Already the doctrine that men are released from obedience of God's requirements has weakened the force of moral obligation and opened the floodgates of iniquity upon the world." GC p. 584, 585

The danger is when the Religious Right, combined with Vatican and eastern religion, oppose the law of God by promoting Sunday legislation. If we are going to be paranoid, we should at least know what to be paranoid about.

• Opposing gay marriage is not the same as promoting Sunday legislation
• Opposing sex and violence on TV is not the same as promoting Sunday legislation.
• Opposing no-fault divorce is not the same as promoting Sunday legislation
• Opposing sex education in public school is not the same as promoting Sunday legislation.
• Opposing evolution taught in the public schools is not the same as promoting Sunday legislation.
• Opposing pornography is not the same as proposing Sunday legislation
• Opposing abortion on demand is not the same as proposing Sunday legislation

Ellen White pointed out that Protestant America (what we now call the Religious Right) "will be foremost in stretching its hands accross the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience." p. 588

Here we see a threefold union. We see the Vatican, the Religious Right and... what? In what sector of society does spiritualism carry its influence? How can the Religious Right and the Vatican join with spiritualism?

Read this article if interested >>> The Religious Affiliation of Actor Richard Gere <<<

Quote:

---

In Asian countries, where Buddhism is much more prevalent, the philosophy is not so much a religion of the masses. It is kept alive by a monastic elite, who spread their influence by teaching and example. So, too, in America, with the difference that the equivalent class here consists of movie stars and rock musicians, who can spread their message through movies and television.

---

Hollywood and the entertainment industry is likely the third link in the union that will fulfill the prophecies in the latter half of Revelation 13. Over the past 50 years the Religious Right has joined hands with the Vatican, now they must also join hands with Hollywood - and it appears to be happening on some level.

While we know that the Religious Right will be part of this end time scenario, we don't know that it will be the same people who today are opposing gay marriage, abortion and evolution. If their crusades would always remain so noble we would have no need for concern. It could just as easily be the militant environmentalists that become Sunday-law crusaders.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

You seem to personalize it. I think that you have misunderstood her.

---

You are right. I see her and others' critism of the Religious Right as being critical of specific individuals like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. While I do not agree with such individuals about many things, I do not want to sit in judgement of their faith either.

[Neil D]

As I have said before, and I will say it again...We are not here to take on God's job, including that of the HS to convict of sin. Doing so promotes the origional problem of Adam and Eve, where the serpent said "For the day that you eat, you will be like God, knowing good and evil." I am a creature. I am not God. And I dare say, ANY christian who promotes this is promoting Satans agenda of personal degregation.

Concider your 'evidence' where you quote Isa 58:1-

Quote:

---

Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

---

Have you looked at the context of that verse? Isa 57:17-21

[:"blue"] 17 I was enraged by his sinful greed;

I punished him, and hid my face in anger,

yet he kept on in his willful ways.

18 I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;

I will guide him and restore comfort to him,

19 creating praise on the lips of the mourners in Israel.

Peace, peace, to those far and near,"

says the LORD. "And I will heal them."

20 But the wicked are like the tossing sea,

which cannot rest,

whose waves cast up mire and mud.

21 "There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked." [/]

It is thru the "lips of praise " that the wicked are turned back, Shane. It is witnessing what the Lord has done, not in taking on God's power of convicting of sin that brings about change.

As for your text of Ezek 3:17-19, these are words for a prophet, not for a diciple. And it is this 'taking on power', this desire of Godlikeness, that has created our problems for Christians, every thing from the crusades to everyday church relationship to board meetings that has created problems for the church.

Again, I will say that this is NOT the way to go, as it is a deception that is quite used by the devil MUCH to his delight.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

There are many Adventists that worry themselves into a paranoid coma that the Religious Right is the same group of people that will fulfill the prophecies in the latter half of Revelation 13. These Adventists see the Religious Right as more dangerous than the entertainment industry.

---

First off, the entertainemnt industry is NOT about legislating morals..The RR is.

Second, they have already ignored and undermined the 10 commandments.

Third, you seem to make the assumption that at some future event, specifically, when Sunday laws are enacted, THEN is when they have crossed that line.

What you seem to forget is that this is ALREADY a done deal. They have already made that decision and ONCE IN POWER, they will enact those legislations necessary to bring it about.

Quote:

---

Hollywood and the entertainment industry is likely the third link in the union that will fulfill the prophecies in the latter half of Revelation 13. Over the past 50 years the Religious Right has joined hands with the Vatican, now they must also join hands with Hollywood - and it appears to be happening on some level.

---

Hollywood is NOT the third link. EGW has already pointed out who the third link is- SPIRITUALISM....It is a philosophy, not an entity. The protestant church and the catholic church already has spiritualism teaching for christian teachings...And spiritualism has already far reaching consequences already in place, not only in the Chrisitan church, but also in the populace already.

You seem to be missing a valid factor in your assesment of latter day events.

[Dr. Shane]

The Bible commands the believer to rebuke. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Tim. 3:16.

Satan wants us to go to extreame and either do this without love OR not do it at all. When we use the Bible to correct, it is God that is correcting and the Holy Spirit that does the convicting. We are just a tool.