Oh, the joys of socialism

[joeb]

Oh, what a wonderful thing government is.  I just turned 62 at the end of last year.  As a result Social Security changed my status from disabled to retired.  Oh, the magic of the bureaucrat's pen.  Just like that my medical benefits were taken away, and now, due to Obamacare the cheapest route possible is going to cost us in excess of $6000/year.  My medical condition never changed.  In fact my health is worse now then it was when I was declared disabled, by Social Security.  

A $3400 deductible.  A premium of around $200/month, plus whatever other people have to pay in taxes so that my payment is what it is.  Plus, a 20% copay on medications, which in my case is more than $300 a month.  All of this forced on us because of socialist policies.  I was far better off before I had insurance.  The drug companies would provide all non-generic drugs to me at no cost, meaning that the $1200/month insulin I use cost me nothing, and the $400/month prescription for pain killers was likewise free.  And nobody had to pay taxes to support my supposedly wonderful insurance policy.....   And, because I was low income, my doctor's office visits were only $30 apiece.  So, I could get my medical care, pre-Obamacare for less than $100/month.  Now, thanks to  all this government "help" I, and everyone else who is paying more taxes due to sociaiistic medicine, is paying what most likely amounts to around $600 a month.  That's an increase of more than 700% in cost.  Before the costs were carrried by private and corporate donations.  Now it comes out of everyone's hide at greatly increased costs and a reduction in the quality of the medical care I recieve.....

The only way to bring costs under control for us is to reduce our income even more.  Thus, does socialism encourage self-reliance or dependency and all the associated psychological issues associated with it such as greatly decreased self-respect because to survive you must become a ward of the government rather than be self-supporting?  Government programs are designed to increase dependency, not encourage a person towards self-sufficiency which any society that is going to grow and improve must encourage in its people.  A dependent population is a population of sheep, and that is the only thing socialism ever produces.  It doesn't build anything but dependency.  It builds no independence, no liberty, no ambition, nothing positive in a society governed by it.  

Look at what a society built on liberty and capitalism which both encourage independence, self-reliance, liberty, ambition built in the US before the 20th century.  In 200 years it took a small, poor nation to the leadership of the free world with people risking everything to enter it and enjoy the opportunity to succeed.  Socialism can hold up nothing even close to comparable in accomplishment.  Instead it offers the herd mentality, envy, and fear of those who have more than you do.  It pits white against black.  Women against men.  Rich against poor.  Race against race.  It offers the ability to destroy rather than the ability to build.  In fact, socialism has always been the ideology of destruction.  It started with Marx and Engels telling the working man he must destroy his employer to get what his employer had.  Nothing Biblical about it.  As a result you know who its number one sponsor is.  He thrives on envy, strife, and deciet.  He loves to see one human being destroy another.   

The other thing socialism offers is the changing of society to the lowest common denominator.  This is why you see it's advocates saying it's not fair for one person to get a good education and another not.  The radicals are now saying parents shouldn't be allowed to read to their children because that gives those children an advantage over children whose parent's don't read to them.  Yeah, dumb everything down as far as possible. Stifle innovation, creativity, education, thinking, free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, etc....  Replace it with something that can never be attained, perfect equality.  God didn't even create us all perfectly equal.  He gave more ability to some and less ability to others.  What does that say about God's view of socialism?  That He thinks it's a good idea?  God is the God of liberty, not oppression and sameness.

[bonnie]

Joab,

Look on the bright side. All those young women that we are providing birth control for and those up to 26 on mommy and daddy's insurance.

Wish I could tell you it will get better but unfortunately it won't. As my druggist told me we will look on this as the good old days if this isn't stopped. There isn't such a thing as a free lunch

Before Obama stepped in to save me money I was  79.00 a month for our supplemental per policy. 26.00 for Prescription D.

Now my supplemental with prescription D is 157.00 my husband's is 200.00. Prior to Obama and his lies we didn't pay any co-pay for generic drugs and maximum co-pay on brand name. 

Now we pay at least 4.00 co-pay for the generic and 2/3 of the cost of brand name drugs. One prescription alone is 87.00 per month,of that we pay 57.00. With the deduction for medicare we are paying more than when we carried our own insurance.

My son's insurance premium was 545.00 per month with 2500.00 deductible,since Obama stepped in he is now paying 1145.00 per month with a higher deductible and co-pay.

The insurance premiums my brother paid for his two adopted grandchildren has doubled under this "savings plan"

[Outta Here]

Would anyone rather pay their own medical expenses "out of pocket" and not have the insurance (and medicare/medicaid) to assist in coverage? Try breaking your hip at age 92 and see how far "out of pocket" will get you. 

[bonnie]

9 minutes ago, Aubrey said:

Would anyone rather pay their own medical expenses "out of pocket" and not have the insurance (and medicare/medicaid) to assist in coverage? Try breaking your hip at age 92 and see how far "out of pocket" will get you. 

No one suggested anything close to what you asked. No one!.I don't object to paying my way,we always have. I do object at our age,my husband is 75 with multiple health issues and I am 71 to contributing to medical coverage for able bodied young people.

I believe our"honest" leader did say of course those on medicare would not be impacted.

If you are 92 and break your hip and do not have insurance and no income,it does not come out of pocket. It has happened in our family twice,one was in her 90's. She didn't have any money. She was cared for,including private duty nurse for a couple of days.

WE are paying more now than we paid for Blue Cross privately

[Outta Here]

Relax. My question was, would ANYONE RATHER pay out of pocket? I don't think anyone would, really. I'm glad you personally don't object to paying your own way. Every little bit helps.

[bonnie]

What does that question have to do with the topic?

[Green Cochoa]

10 minutes ago, Aubrey said:

Relax. My question was, would ANYONE RATHER pay out of pocket? I don't think anyone would, really. I'm glad you personally don't object to paying your own way. Every little bit helps.

I would rather pay out of pocket.  For everything.  However, it seems that's becoming illegal in today's America.  Did you know that doctors can have their medical licenses revoked for offering free care?  The government wants more than its paws on the financial pulse of the medical industry--it wants the records--your patient files.  HIPAA laws, ironically, prevent medical establishments from encrypting any of their electronically transferred records, and insurance companies these days do almost everything electronically. 

I don't understand why so many people have bought into the system as to be shelling out $100s a month for man-made chemicals to put into God-made bodies.  Drugs are not the solution to health problems, folks.  They may be required in certain cases, but that is often because people have failed to care for themselves in terms of diet, exercise, rest, temperance, sunshine, water, and trust in God.

[bonnie]

16 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

I would rather pay out of pocket.  For everything.  However, it seems that's becoming illegal in today's America.  Did you know that doctors can have their medical licenses revoked for offering free care?  The government wants more than its paws on the financial pulse of the medical industry--it wants the records--your patient files.  HIPAA laws, ironically, prevent medical establishments from encrypting any of their electronically transferred records, and insurance companies these days do almost everything electronically. 

I don't understand why so many people have bought into the system as to be shelling out $100s a month for man-made chemicals to put into God-made bodies.  Drugs are not the solution to health problems, folks.  They may be required in certain cases, but that is often because people have failed to care for themselves in terms of diet, exercise, rest, temperance, sunshine, water, and trust in God.

My husband's health issues require medication.  Many are in the same position. He never had a sick day or a prescription for the first 40 years we were married. A birth defect we were unaware of caught up with him and he began having strokes by age 60.

He also has afib,COPD and a aneurysm in the aortic heart valve. He needs to have an MRI every 6 months to monitor that. Because of his other health issues they don't want to repair it and the hole in his heart until or unless it increases in size. It was a little unsettling to have to have our Dr fight medicare to have it more than once a year. How long before they will decide that his life at this age doesn't have enough value to approve it twice a year. Prior to the mess with Obamacare there wasn't a question as to twice a year.

Many people that have taken exceptional care of their health run into situations that require medications.

[Green Cochoa]

Do the medications cure the problem?  If I were in that position, I would seek another way.  Honestly.  I have never known drugs to cure much in the vast majority of cases.  Pain killers, for example, only disconnect the body's "dummy light" to indicate the problem, and do not address the problem itself.  One medicine that I think is beneficial when used correctly is antibiotics.  Most other drugs prescribed today fall squarely into what Mrs. White would have called "poisons."  As she put it, they may make a change, but not for the better.  The side effects of some of these drugs, even the "over-the-counter" ones, are nothing to sneeze at.

The problem is that doctors have not followed sound judgment in their medical practice--instead, following their pharmaceutical-company-sponsored education.  They do not seek to know the true cause of the disease.  They apply their arts more particularly to the symptoms.  The average doctor has had ZERO classes in nutrition in medical school.  They are not trained about the benefits of a vegetarian lifestyle, fasting, or hydrotherapy.  They know about exercise mostly from hype and statistics, and have little acquaintance with its actual benefits, either short- or long-term.

I guess I am simply questioning the wisdom of your doctors who have prescribed all those drugs.  They do not realize that they are pawns of the pharmaceutical industry, having been trained to use their drugs.  Those who are ignorant are unaware of the fact.  In some area or another, this comprehends all of us.

[Outta Here]

When diet, exercise, rest, etc., don't work--medical help can get to be fairly costly. I am thankful we have medical insurance to assist in our expenses in those times when medical intervention is necessary. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Do the medications cure the problem?  If I were in that position, I would seek another way.  Honestly.  I have never known drugs to cure much in the vast majority of cases. 

In many cases  the medications only allow the  body to heal itself.

The side effects of some of these drugs, even the "over-the-counter" ones, are nothing to sneeze at.

True.

They do not seek to know the true cause of the disease.  They apply their arts more particularly to the symptoms.

I spent 20 years working in a teaching hospital.  For several years I "rounded" with the Internal Medicine residents.  They were trained to identify he cause of the problem and to treat that cause, not just the symptoms.

They are not trained about the benefits of a vegetarian lifestyle, fasting, or hydrotherapy.  They know about exercise mostly from hype and statistics, and have little acquaintance with its actual benefits, either short- or long-term.

Sometimes true.  Sometimes false.  Sometimes partially true.  In any case, physicians are typically not the experts in the above and they refer to those who are experts.

 

 

 

[bonnie]

32 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

Do the medications cure the problem?  If I were in that position, I would seek another way.  Honestly.  I have never known drugs to cure much in the vast majority of cases.  Pain killers, for example, only disconnect the body's "dummy light" to indicate the problem, and do not address the problem itself.  One medicine that I think is beneficial when used correctly is antibiotics.  Most other drugs prescribed today fall squarely into what Mrs. White would have called "poisons."  As she put it, they may make a change, but not for the better.  The side effects of some of these drugs, even the "over-the-counter" ones, are nothing to sneeze at.

The medications have kept him alive. There isn't a cure for COPD. This was caused by his profession.Until they develop a cure he needs to keep breathing and he does that by a nebulizer using various medications. He does not take pain killers.

If someone would suggest a way to close the hole in his heart without surgery which is very risky for him,I am all ears. 

He was also born with a defective aoritic heart valve,is there a way to cure that. Can you suggest a way to remove the aneurysm?

 

 

32 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

The problem is that doctors have not followed sound judgment in their medical practice--instead, following their pharmaceutical-company-sponsored education.  They do not seek to know the true cause of the disease.  They apply their arts more particularly to the symptoms.  The average doctor has had ZERO classes in nutrition in medical school.  They are not trained about the benefits of a vegetarian lifestyle, fasting, or hydrotherapy.  They know about exercise mostly from hype and statistics, and have little acquaintance with its actual benefits, either short- or long-term.

I guess I am simply questioning the wisdom of your doctors who have prescribed all those drugs.  They do not realize that they are pawns of the pharmaceutical industry, having been trained to use their drugs.  Those who are ignorant are unaware of the fact.  In some area or another, this comprehends all of us.

I beg to differ. We spent 3 -10 hour days having every test known to determine why he should be having strokes.Thanks to a very dedicated Dr and his staff they did.  

I have dealt with Dr's that weren't worth the time of day,generally most have been very good and have done all they can to identify the problem and the best way to treat it.

 

This topic isn't really about the quality of care my husband or anyone else is receiving. It is about the marvelous,money saving law that keeps raising our cost

[CoAspen]

Quote

They may be required in certain cases, but that is often because people have failed to care for themselves in terms of diet, exercise, rest, temperance, sunshine, water, and trust in God.

A presumptuous statement without knowledge of what they are speaking of. I have seen, talked to and know the medical history of many a patient that has come down with cancers whose lives have met your 'criteria' for health.  If your 'criteria' was met than all should be in perfect health. Disease is about what is in the world as well as the lifestyle of the individual.

Quote

Most other drugs prescribed today fall squarely into what Mrs. White would have called "poisons." 

Wrong again, EGW taken out of context of the meds she was talking about from her time.

Quote

The problem is that doctors have not followed sound judgment in their medical practice--i

More presumption and casting unfounded aspersions on others character.

Let those who are perfect cast the first stone.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote

 The average doctor has had ZERO classes in nutrition in medical school.

That's not accurate.  Many med schools require nutrition classes, including Harvard University's School of Medicine.

http://nutrition.med.harvard.edu/education/edu_undergrad.html

[joeb]

23 hours ago, Green Cochoa said:

I would rather pay out of pocket.  For everything.  However, it seems that's becoming illegal in today's America.  Did you know that doctors can have their medical licenses revoked for offering free care?  The government wants more than its paws on the financial pulse of the medical industry--it wants the records--your patient files.  HIPAA laws, ironically, prevent medical establishments from encrypting any of their electronically transferred records, and insurance companies these days do almost everything electronically. 

I don't understand why so many people have bought into the system as to be shelling out $100s a month for man-made chemicals to put into God-made bodies.  Drugs are not the solution to health problems, folks.  They may be required in certain cases, but that is often because people have failed to care for themselves in terms of diet, exercise, rest, temperance, sunshine, water, and trust in God.

Well, if I could live without them, I'd do it.  Everything you said about diet and the like is true, up to a point.  Those things do wonders, but, and it is a big but, heredity also plays a major role.  My mother died of CHF and she was skinny, walked regularly, ate healthfully since the 1950's, drank lots of water, etc....  However, both of her parents died of heart attacks and strokes.  On my old man's side of the family all of his brothers and a couple of his uncles died of heart disease.  He died of a hereditary disease that caused his blood to clot and the clots killed him.  His mother, and a few others in his family tree were type 2 diabetics.  So, I have a long family history of this stuff. 

My problems started with a back injury that wouldn't allow me to walk more than 40-50' at a time.  Surgeons told me the odds are 50-50 as to whether surgery would make me better or worse.  I don't like those odds when I have days that less than a minute on my feet has me sweating due to pain levels.  But, I also have had high blood pressure since I was in my mid twenties.  I was raised a vegetarian ate healthfully until my mid twenties.  Then I started to eat meat, but I already had heart disease by that time.  I'm also way overweight, but then again, when all my former ways of working off stress and exercising are all gone what do you do?  I used to hike, play golf, play basketball, do quite a bit of fly fishing which required a lot of hiking in itself, play volleyball, walk with my wife, etc....  All that has been gone for than a decade and a half.  

Ever dealt with high levels of chronic pain?  Know what it's like find yourself holding your breath because your back hurts so bad it hurts to breath, and all you're doing is sitting in a chair?  Without pain meds I couldn't walk hardly at all. 

All that being said I still take responsibility for my health.  I know I made some bad choices, diet-wise.  My bad.  I chose to go fishing the day I hurt my back slipping on moss-covered rocks.  My bad.  But, I may have very well had CHF and diabetes anyway due to my family history.   Without Insulin though I wouldn't last more than a month or so.  Without the drugs to treat CHF I would have drowned in my sleep a few years ago the way my mother finally did.  Without pain meds dealing with the pain is extremely difficult.  Know how depressing it is to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the rest of your life you're limited to doing very little and your life is going to be nothing but pain the entire time?  Until you have experienced all these things it's almost impossible to really understand why a person would take the meds I do.  I don't want to.  I'm forced to.