Time that the dead should be Judged

[Jessie-Jess]

On 4/24/2016 at 9:50 AM, Buzzards said:

what is the SDA understanding of Rev. ch 11, and when should I look for a fulfillment of Matt ch. 13:47

 

 

Matthew 13:47-50Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

⁴⁷ `Again, the reign of the heavens is like to a net that was cast into the sea, and did gather together of every kind,

⁴⁸ which, when it was filled, having drawn up again upon the beach, and having sat down, they gathered the good into vessels, and the bad they did cast out,

⁴⁹ so shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous,

⁵⁰ and shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'

The KJV says "the end of the world". In the "full end of the age" could be referring to the time when the wicked will be completely wiped from the Earth and all the old things done away with/erased/destroyed, right before the Earth is made new. I believe this is what it means, a either that or it means it will be fully done/completed at the end of the age, which I still believe is at that time.

Here are some SDA Resources on Revelation 11.

The Two Witnesses (Free Amazing Facts Sermon), URL: http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/78/t/the-two-witnesses

Revelation 11 Commentary (Amazing Discoveries), URL: http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-witnesses-trumpet-Revelation-11-commentary

Ellen White's Commentary on Revelation 11, URL: https://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=7BC&lang=en&pagenumber=972

Uriah Smith's Book, Daniel and Revelation (PDF-If using windows, you can press ctrl+f to search and search for "Revelation 11". Mac has a similar feature.) URL: http://sdapillars.org/media/download_gallery/US_DanRev1897.pdf

The latter is taking too long to load, so I closed it before seeing whether it held something Revelation 11 specific. You might also find "The Great Controversy" to be eye revealing. 

 

 

[Rossw]

3 hours ago, Kevin H said:

But this means that you are forcing upon a text more than what the text is actually saying and that you do not allow the text to speak for itself. An additional note besides the technical language as to when the event of the entrance, the Septuagint also uses the term "within the veil" as a term for the entire sanctuary and does not do what we do, limit to the Most Holy Place.

I think one think to consider in discussing the heavenly sanctuary is the placement in the sanctuary is probably less important then the ministry being performed at a given time. Daily atonement is still performed(i know, debatable) at the same time judgement is occurring. To know which ministry is going on in Hebrews look at the animals referred to and furniture involved etc. 

Does Christ need a veil from the Father? Most likely not. The language used in the veil may represent more of the service involved?

Kevin, I only quoted you to possibly add to the thought but you're open to disagreeing of course.

[Samie]

11 hours ago, Kevin H said:

But this means that you are forcing upon a text more than what the text is actually saying and that you do not allow the text to speak for itself.

Well, if that's how you see it.

But I don't quite see it that way. Hebrew 6:19, 20 simply says Jesus has entered "within the veil". and I simply believed it. It's you who consulted extra-biblical sources and presented what your sources think the verse actually says. It appears to me that it's you and your sources who are FORCING upon the text what it is actually saying.

12 hours ago, Kevin H said:

An additional note besides the technical language as to when the event of the entrance, the Septuagint also uses the term "within the veil" as a term for the entire sanctuary and does not do what we do, limit to the Most Holy Place.

Oh really? I'd be glad to know those verses where the Septuagint used the term "within the veil" as a term for the entire sanctuary. Can you specify those verses, please Kevin?

While waiting for you, here are some verses in the Septuagint where the term "within the vail" is used in the Septuagint as referring to the MHP:

Quote

^KJV Exodus 26:33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

^LXT Exodus 26:33 kai. qh,seij to. katape,tasma evpi. tou.j stu,louj kai. eivsoi,seij evkei/ evsw,teron tou/ katapeta,smatoj th.n kibwto.n tou/ marturi,ou kai. dioriei/ to. katape,tasma u`mi/n avna. me,son tou/ a`gi,ou kai. avna. me,son tou/ a`gi,ou tw/n a`gi,wn

^KJV Leviticus 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

^LXT Leviticus 16:2 kai. ei=pen ku,rioj pro.j Mwush/n la,lhson pro.j Aarwn to.n avdelfo,n sou kai. mh. eivsporeue,sqw pa/san w[ran eivj to. a[gion evsw,teron tou/ katapeta,smatoj eivj pro,swpon tou/ i`lasthri,ou o[ evstin evpi. th/j kibwtou/ tou/ marturi,ou kai. ouvk avpoqanei/tai evn ga.r nefe,lh| ovfqh,somai evpi. tou/ i`lasthri,ou

^KJV Leviticus 16:12 And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail:

^LXT Leviticus 16:12 kai. lh,myetai to. purei/on plh/rej avnqra,kwn puro.j avpo. tou/ qusiasthri,ou tou/ avpe,nanti kuri,ou kai. plh,sei ta.j cei/raj qumia,matoj sunqe,sewj lepth/j kai. eivsoi,sei evsw,teron tou/ katapeta,smatoj

^KJV Leviticus 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

^LXT Leviticus 16:15 kai. sfa,xei to.n ci,maron to.n peri. th/j a`marti,aj to.n peri. tou/ laou/ e;nanti kuri,ou kai. eivsoi,sei avpo. tou/ ai[matoj auvtou/ evsw,teron tou/ katapeta,smatoj kai. poih,sei to. ai-ma auvtou/ o]n tro,pon evpoi,hsen to. ai-ma tou/ mo,scou kai. r`anei/ to. ai-ma auvtou/ evpi. to. i`lasth,rion kata. pro,swpon tou/ i`lasthri,ou

 

[JoeMo]

Learning the Gospel message shouldn't require one to have a graduate degree in theology and hermeneutics.    The deeper dive one takes into certain subjects, the more likely it is that he/she will find points on which to disagree with others.  I'm satisfied to know that we all will be judged in the investigative judgment (if there is such a thing - I currently don't accept that there is); the Second Coming, or the end of the millennium.  I don't really know if, in the scheme of things, that it is all that important to know who is judged when.

[8thdaypriest]

On 6/20/2016 at 9:08 PM, Rossw said:

How many veils were there in the santuary? There were at least 2.

 3 Behind the second veil there was a [d]tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies,

If the daily sacrifices and the day of atonement on earth were periods of time representing what Christ would do in the heavenly sanctuary, doesn't it make logical sense the heavenly sanctuary would start with an inauguration, go through a time period of daily intercession, and end with a judgement period?

In Solomon's Temple, and later in Herod's Temple the "holy place" and the "most holy place" were separated by TWO overlapping veils.  The high priest would walk BETWEEN the veils in a space about 3 ft wide, to enter and leave the MHP.  So you see - a SINGLE veil could not have been torn when Christ died. 

I believe the SINGLE veil which was torn by the hand of God, when Christ died, was the ENTRANCE VEIL into the first apartment - into the Temple itself (80ft high and 3 inches thick).  The tearing of THAT VEIL would have been SEEN by those in the Temple Court AND by those on the Mt of Olives (where I believe they crucified Christ).  The "red heifer" was killed and burned on the Mt of Olives. 

There are quite a few Temple scholars who hold this view. 

[8thdaypriest]

18 hours ago, Kevin H said:

I was trying to bring enough information to try to cover but not overwhelm you. The paper deals with the point about the phrasing "Within the Veil" and the difference between how it was worded in the Septuagint between the chapters where the priest enters on the day of atonement, and  the inauguration in Exodus 40; Lev 8:10-12; Num 7:1. If the author of Hebrews wanted it to be the Day of Atonement entering beyond the veil, why didn't he or she use the Septuagint language for entering on the day of atonement instead of using the Septuagint language for entering to inaugurate? If you wish I can send you a copy either of the whole paper or the section dealing with this issue. The article points our how other scholars, including non-Adventists are starting to realize that Hebrews does not use the language for entering on the day of atonement.

I like this idea Kevin - that Christ ENTERED "through the veil" to inaugurate His Heavenly Tabernacle ministry. 

Thank you for posting all of that scholarly work. 

I do believe that the "veil" which represented "his flesh" was the ENTRANCE veil into the Temple (which represented ALL of Heaven) - NOT the two overlapping veils hanging between the HP and the MHP.   There's a LOT of scholarship on that one also.  I especially like Joseph Good's work. 

Solomon's Temple and Herod's Temple were two storied, and there were matching apartments above the first floor HP and MHP.  That is where the priests hid the child king Joash and his nurse for six years (2 KIngs 11:3).