Non-Disclosure Prayer

[Raphael]

Happy Sabbath. 

I just sat down to eat my meal at some eatery and these thoughts flashed through, as had at plenty other occasions.. It's not really mind profoundly exhausting.. But I keep getting the impression that plenty keep the secrecy of their prayers in public half-heartedly.

By bowing their heads and closing their eyes, which is such a glaring message to all about what's going on.. Personally, for me, I keep eyes open and I just use my shortcut prayers, so no one (unnecessarily and needlessly) needs to know I pray..

Which do you think should be the proper "non-disclosure" prayer practice (particularly in public)?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think the method, time and place of praying should be up to the individual.  If some want to close their eyes and bow their heads to say grace at a public restaurant, there's no reason they shouldn't do that.  I remember as a little girl, when my family was traveling and we stopped in restaurants along the way, we always had prayer before our meals.  But that was back in the 1950s and 60s when people didn't seem to get so offended at what others might do.

[Green Cochoa]

Jesus said: "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

If it is right to pray, then it is wrong to be embarrassed about it.  If it is right to confess Christ before others, then . . . .

[phkrause]

A little while ago we went to a Sweet Tomatoes to eat lunch. After getting our food and finding a table, we sat down and thanked God for our food. After the prayer a lady at the next table thanked us for thanking God for the food. She said it was a good example for our grand children to see.

[Gail]

Follow your heart on this matter... We always pray before eating in restaurants and because my husband is hard of hearing sometimes his voice is louder than need be :/  There is a restaurant in town that we frequent where people not only pray openly but speak openly about religious matters. It is the Bible Belt and religion is the life of these folk.

But if you feel that your prayer should not be "on the street corners" but private, that is your choice, too. 

[LifeHiscost]

It seems the attitude by the individual praying is what Jesus was referring to when telling His followers to go into their closet to pray.

5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.… Matthew 6

If we are seeking to extol ourselves as opposed to bringing attention to the King of glory, we receive our reward at the moment and not beyond. OTOH there is IMO, a positive heart detriment if we avoid public prayer as a result of not desiring to be politically correct.

26"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27"But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." ....Luke 9

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

 

 

[Gail]

Good point!

[Green Cochoa]

Where I am, praying in public is definitely politically incorrect.  It is possible it could get me arrested, depending which part of the country I am in and/or who witnesses it.  I still pray visibly in restaurants.  Why should I be embarrassed to be a Christian?  Why should I shun potential trial and tribulation, when Jesus died for me?  Consider Peter and Paul, and the others of Jesus' disciples.  Did they stop their work if the authorities forbad it?  No.  When the angel released Peter from prison, he was told to go right back to the synagogue and preach again.  He did--and got beaten for it.  The Gospels record the experience of Peter at Jesus' crucifixion and how he denied Christ three times.  If we act like we are not one of Jesus' disciples when we are in the restaurant, are we any better than he was?

Christians are never to be ashamed of Christ.  Even if that means persecution may follow.

If people are ready to hide their simple prayer of thankfulness to God because it might offend someone, how will they have the fortitude to take a stand for the Sabbath when facing jail or the death penalty for keeping it?

[Aliensanctuary]

What is it about Christianity that so many hate? It seems like Christians tend to make better citizens because of the encouragement not to lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, etc. There would also be the tendency to respect others, including their property, rights, and lives. Jesus prayed in small groups, but probably not before large crowds. Prayer is supposed to be, after all, a private communication between two parties, God and man.

[Tom Wetmore]

Why do we pray before every meal?  What about praying before a snack?  Should we pray before a drink of water?  

[Green Cochoa]

3 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Why do we pray before every meal?  What about praying before a snack?  Should we pray before a drink of water?  

I can't speak for you, of course, but I pray because I'm a Christian.  What is a Christian? A person who follows Christ.  Jesus set the example for us in giving thanks before eating.  

[Tom Wetmore]

OK.  I'll accept that as a reason to pray before  a meal.  But based on that, if you are praying to give thanks, I assume to God of course, then why is there afloat need to make a showing of it to the surrounding patrons at a restaurant.  God can hear our silent prayers. After all, it is Him we are talking to, not the waiters or the other patrons. For that matter if one is with family or friends, and you wish to share a prayer with the group it could even be done before entering the restaurant.   I sort thought that was the point Raphael was making in his OP.

But my question is really about  more than being a follower of Jesus and imitating him. (I think that was assumed in the context of the question...) We don't necessarily do everything he did just because he did it.  I am asking why?  Why is it necessary to pray? Was "giving thanks" as the Scripture says of Jesus' practice before breaking bread, a prayer or just an acknowledgment to God for his providence, rather like we would thank our host for a fine meal?  And why before the meal?   Can we do it afterwards?  I usually thank my host, or the one preparing the meal, after I have enjoyed it? And why before every meal? What happens if we skip thanks at a meal?  There truly have been meals that I wasn't so terribly grateful for.  This is not from any lack of  an attitude of gratitude. I should be honest when addressing God on matters, I suppose even this. "Lord thanks for some slop to fill my stomach with...  At least I am not so hungry now..."  Or perhaps this pray I have actually prayed before accepting the hospitality of food under conditions not so clearly up to Western health code or culinary standards - "Lord don't let me get sick eating this, because I must eat it and not offend my friends here that are being so generous to me."  Do we pray a "blessing" over the meal to somehow enhance its nutritional properties?  After all, how often have I said the blessing saying, "Help this food to nourish and strengthen our bodies".  What if the food we are eating isn't so healthy?  Will God fortify it with vitamins and minerals and neutralize the bad stuff in it, like the pesticides the farmer used on the fruit and veggies, or the mysterious chemicals in packaged food?  Speaking of snacks, maybe a lot of them really do need an extra blessing if we eat them.  And water is more vital to our wellbeing than food.  There are many times I am more grateful for water than food. "Lord thank you for this glass of cool water!"  Should we also follow Jesus' example and offer thanks over the cup, separately and in addition to giving thanks over the bread?  I guess most of us missed the double giving of thanks in our effort to follow His example...  (Not to mention that it was wine He was giving thanks for.  Yes, real alcohol containing wine.  Passover was not right after the grape harvest.)

 

So, why do we pray before every meal?  Do we even think about what we are doing?  Or is it just a fine habit?  More of an OCD thing we are compelled to do so something bad won't befall us... A ritual... An empty Christian tradition perhaps?  

 

 

 

[Green Cochoa]

10 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

OK.  I'll accept that as a reason to pray before  a meal.  But based on that, if you are praying to give thanks, I assume to God of course, then why is there afloat need to make a showing of it to the surrounding patrons at a restaurant.  God can hear our silent prayers. After all, it is Him we are talking to, not the waiters or the other patrons. For that matter if one is with family or friends, and you wish to share a prayer with the group it could even be done before entering the restaurant.   I sort thought that was the point Raphael was making in his OP.

But my question is really about  more than being a follower of Jesus and imitating him. (I think that was assumed in the context of the question...) We don't necessarily do everything he did just because he did it.  I am asking why?  Why is it necessary to pray? Was "giving thanks" as the Scripture says of Jesus' practice before breaking bread, a prayer or just an acknowledgment to God for his providence, rather like we would thank our host for a fine meal?  And why before the meal?   Can we do it afterwards?  I usually thank my host, or the one preparing the meal, after I have enjoyed it? And why before every meal? What happens if we skip thanks at a meal?  There truly have been meals that I wasn't so terribly grateful for.  This is not from any lack of  an attitude of gratitude. I should be honest when addressing God on matters, I suppose even this. "Lord thanks for some slop to fill my stomach with...  At least I am not so hungry now..."  Or perhaps this pray I have actually prayed before accepting the hospitality of food under conditions not so clearly up to Western health code or culinary standards - "Lord don't let me get sick eating this, because I must eat it and not offend my friends here that are being so generous to me."  Do we pray a "blessing" over the meal to somehow enhance its nutritional properties?  After all, how often have I said the blessing saying, "Help this food to nourish and strengthen our bodies".  What if the food we are eating isn't so healthy?  Will God fortify it with vitamins and minerals and neutralize the bad stuff in it, like the pesticides the farmer used on the fruit and veggies, or the mysterious chemicals in packaged food?  Speaking of snacks, maybe a lot of them really do need an extra blessing if we eat them.  And water is more vital to our wellbeing than food.  There are many times I am more grateful for water than food. "Lord thank you for this glass of cool water!"  Should we also follow Jesus' example and offer thanks over the cup, separately and in addition to giving thanks over the bread?  I guess most of us missed the double giving of thanks in our effort to follow His example...  (Not to mention that it was wine He was giving thanks for.  Yes, real alcohol containing wine.  Passover was not right after the grape harvest.)

 

So, why do we pray before every meal?  Do we even think about what we are doing?  Or is it just a fine habit?  More of an OCD thing we are compelled to do so something bad won't befall us... A ritual... An empty Christian tradition perhaps?  

Jesus said "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 10:32)  He did NOT say "if ye confess me before me" or "if ye confess me in your mind" (neither of which would be necessarily "before men").  To confess Him before men is His will.  We are to be seen by the world as Christians.  He has further instructed us not to hide our light under a bushel, but to let it shine out into the world.

Certainly, sometimes it might be out of habit.  But it is still a good habit to have, and can still be genuine.

I recently heard the story of a little girl who has been adopted by a Christian woman.  The woman's mother, however, is a Buddhist.  The woman taught the baby girl to pray before eating, even though she cannot talk yet.  She would put her hands together and quietly wait for her mother to say the prayer before she would eat.  The mother had to go to the big city for a few days and left the little girl with "grandma."  Grandma cooked food and gave it to the little girl, but the girl refused to eat.  Poor Grandma!  She didn't know how to pray!  But she remembered the ending word, "Amen!"  So she said that, and then the little girl started to eat.  This scenario repeated itself until the mother returned and grandma told her all what happened.

I heard the story from the mother herself, so I can assure you that this is true.  The little girl is already a missionary before she is old enough to talk, simply by her custom of praying before the meal.  This is just what Jesus wants us to be--ambassadors for Him wherever we might happen to be.

[phkrause]

Personally I don't pray because I'm a Christian. I pray because I'm thankful for what God has given me. If it wasn't for him I would not have anything!!

[pierrepaul]

For me it was a childhood ritual, one which I try to maintain. I live a blessed and privileged life. I have never wanted for food. I have always had clothes on my back. I have always had a home. I have never been unemployed. I thank the Lord for this. I don't know why I have been so favoured - it is not because of my piety as I have often strayed and continue to stray. I try to be humble and I try to be generous to those who are less fortunate.

As for public prayer, the Bible, as is often the case, is inconsistent. We have Matthew 6:6 and the exhortation to pray in secret. We have Daniel who made a spectacle of prayer. King Solomon prayed in public before the nation; Jesus prayed on a mountain top alone. Perhaps as is written in Ecclesiastes, "for everything there is a season."

[Tom Wetmore]

21 hours ago, Green Cochoa said:

Jesus said "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 10:32)  He did NOT say "if ye confess me before me" or "if ye confess me in your mind" (neither of which would be necessarily "before men").  To confess Him before men is His will.  We are to be seen by the world as Christians.  He has further instructed us not to hide our light under a bushel, but to let it shine out into the world.

 

And Jesus also said, "But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."  Matthew 6:6.  Read the context of that statement and may see how directly it applies to the question at hand.  

What you have done is turn a simple expression of gratitude to God into a means of showing others we are Christians.  That is part of the point of my asking the question.  Is it really intended as a witnessing tool a way to communicate our devotion to God to strangers who may be dining in proximity to us?  Or is it simply as Scripture records of Jesus' own practice to just "give thanks", or show our gratitude to God.  My sense of it is that I am communicating that specifically to God and not to put on a display of my piety and devotion to God for the rest of the world.  The story in Matthew 6 and Jesus' reaction to it suggests to me a caution to be careful of our motivation and keep perspective of the relevant relationship that our words and actions are a part of.

It really is important to think about why we do what we do and say what we say.

[Gail]

Context, context, as the other thread title states.

There is time for public prayer. EGW says to make those prayers short. Standing on the street corner and making your prayer ostentatious might not be the best way to do it.

[Raphael]

May I remind of another angle of "don't give/throw your gold to dogs", where surroundings are sorta totally hopeless and would instead pounce on your "gold" to tear it up (as what dogs may do)..

Not that the generation of this age is completely hopeless.. But I do tend towards that conclusion cause the knowledge of Christianity is so widespread without the expected fruits (from a fruitful tree), where the glaring sky clear most powerful religion of today.. Is instead MONEY or materialism.. Call it the last Laudecia church symptom of either not warm and neither cold.. Whatever message pertaining to eternal life, it will just pass through from one ear to the other.. Hehe.. Not that they're unknowledgeable but deliberately chose to ignore, while maintaining the most composed and refined manner..

So for me I prefer to keep my personal prayers secret, knowledgeable only to myself.. If in church or in a group where there's a request to lead the group prayer, that's a different case.. But whenever the possibility arises.. I prefer to pray secretly in my heart..

[Gail]

And as God knows the heart He will hear. The Bible says that He who hears in secret will reward you openly. May you be blessed  

[pierrepaul]

On 2016-05-07 at 7:13 AM, Raphael said:

So for me I prefer to keep my personal prayers secret, knowledgeable only to myself.. If in church or in a group where there's a request to lead the group prayer, that's a different case.. But whenever the possibility arises.. I prefer to pray secretly in my heart..

Amen. In my Sabbath School group or even in family prayer, I do not share my inner thoughts.