Did We All Die With Christ?

[Samie]

The Bible says all died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14,15). Apostle Paul explains that he was crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20), but was he there hanging on the cross with Him when Christ was hanging on the cross? No. Same thing applies to us all now. We were not there when Christ was crucified, but just like Paul, we were crucified with Christ, and hence died when He died. Having died with Him, we are now free from sin (Rom 6:7), because the blood of Christ washed us clean from sin (Rev 1:5). That simply means we were forgiven from ALL sins (Col 2:13). Our sins and iniquities God remembers NO MORE (Heb 10:16, 17).

But we did not just die with Christ. God also made us alive TOGETHER with Him when He raised Him from the grave (Eph 2:4-6). Through His resurrection, God caused us to be born again (1 Pet 1:3). Hence we are spiritually alive, and therefore attached to Christ because He is our life (Col 3:4). We are part of His Body (1 Cor 12:12-27). Attached to Him Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13), we have His Power to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). And overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5), and will be seated with Christ – Who also is an overcomer – in His throne (Rev 3:21).

The question for you to ponder is, have you been overcome of evil instead of overcoming evil with good? If Yes, then be an overcomer. Overcome evil with good. The fight is not over yet. There’s hope while alive. Fight the good fight of faith (1 Tim 6:12; 2 Tim 4:7). God has given us faith (Rom 12:3) so we can please Him (Heb 11:6) and gain victory over the world (1 John 5:4). Through Christ, we are more than conquerors (Rom 8:37).

[TrevorL]

Greetings Samie,

 

On ‎30‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 6:42 AM, Samie said:

The Bible says all died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14,15). Apostle Paul explains that he was crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20), but was he there hanging on the cross with Him when Christ was hanging on the cross? No. Same thing applies to us all now. We were not there when Christ was crucified, but just like Paul, we were crucified with Christ, and hence died when He died.

 

I have reservations about what you say here. In a sense what you say is true, in that we are identified with Christ in his crucifixion, but I suggest that it is only when we have faith in what was accomplished in his crucifixion, death and resurrection that we die with him.

 

Paul does not say “I was crucified with Christ” but

Galatians 2:20 (KJV): I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

When Saul, before he became Paul, was persecuting the believers he was not united with Christ, but was identifying himself with those who actually rejected and crucified Christ. The one thief was also crucified with Christ at the time of Christ's crucifixion as John states.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

[Robert]

5 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Paul does not say “I was crucified with Christ” but Galatians 2:20 (KJV): I am crucified with Christ..."

 

"I have been crucified with Christ" NASB

"I have been crucified with Christ" NIV

 

[Robert]

In Gal 2:19,20 Paul is writing of experiencing the truth as it is "in Christ" (i.e., sanctification)

In Romans 6:6/7:4 and 2 Cor 5:14 Paul is referring to the gospel - our justification, received by faith.

[Samie]

On 31/05/2016 at 2:54 PM, TrevorL said:

I have reservations about what you say here. In a sense what you say is true, in that we are identified with Christ in his crucifixion, but I suggest that it is only when we have faith in what was accomplished in his crucifixion, death and resurrection that we die with him.

Unless one puts into the basket his share of the deal . . .  Doesn't that smell of works-based salvation?

NKJ Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

[TrevorL]

Greetings Robert and greetings again Samie,

 

On ‎31‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 10:28 PM, Robert said:

"I have been crucified with Christ" NASB

"I have been crucified with Christ" NIV

 

I appreciate the information concerning the different tense in the NASB and NIV. As I am not a Greek scholar I cannot verify this. My comments were trying to differentiate that we become crucified with Jesus by means of faith, not automatically “all” as Samie appeared to suggest. I believe that Paul became united with Christ in his crucifixion, death and resurrection when he was apprehended on the way to Damascus and then was baptized into Christ soon afterwards.

 

14 hours ago, Samie said:

Unless one puts into the basket his share of the deal . . .  Doesn't that smell of works-based salvation?

 

I believe in faith and grace, but I also believe that this faith motivates to move the believer to be identified with Christ. Those who do not allow their faith to bring forth fruit have a dead faith, refer James 2.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

[Robert]

3 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I believe that Paul became united with Christ in his crucifixion, death and resurrection when he was apprehended on the way to Damascus and then was baptized into Christ soon afterwards. 

Fallen mankind was crucified with Christ on the cross.  That work is finished.  You can't add to it - you can only accept what has already taken place in the doing and dying of Christ. 

[Robert]

Col 1:9 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven (sky), by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

[Kevin H]

At the second coming as we see Jesus in all his glory and beauty and contrast our filthy rags to him we all ask "Who Shall be able to stand?" Mrs. White describes what happens next. There is a moment of awful silence then Jesus says (sings?) "My grace is sufficient for you!" Notice he does NOT say "My grace is sufficient to some of you." He does not point to us and say "My grace is sufficient for you, and you, not you, but it is for you and you and you and wait, not you but the person behind you over there" but too often that is how we picture it in our discussions.

The problem is not on God's side. His crucifixion is all encompassing.  People are filled with joy, but sadly others do not believe him. They think that his grace is not sufficient for them, they think he is lying, so they run to the rocks and caves and say "Fall on us and hide us from the one who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the lamb."

Wrath of the lamb... do you expect to hear on TV a news bulletin to go inside and lock your doors and windows because a lamb escaped from the children's zoo? John and Mrs. White say that they have no more need to be afraid of Jesus than they need of a little lamb. His grace is sufficient for them. But they refuse to believe him.

[Samie]

15 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I appreciate the information concerning the different tense in the NASB and NIV. As I am not a Greek scholar I cannot verify this. My comments were trying to differentiate that we become crucified with Jesus by means of faith, not automatically “all” as Samie appeared to suggest. I believe that Paul became united with Christ in his crucifixion, death and resurrection when he was apprehended on the way to Damascus and then was baptized into Christ soon afterwards.

 

I believe in faith and grace, but I also believe that this faith motivates to move the believer to be identified with Christ. Those who do not allow their faith to bring forth fruit have a dead faith, refer James 2.

So while people are NOT yet part of the body of Christ and therefore APART from Christ, they are able to do SOMETHING so they can be identified with or be In Him?  If you are right, then Christ is wrong because He said APART from Him man can do NOTHING. Please explain.

[TrevorL]

2 hours ago, Samie said:

So while people are NOT yet part of the body of Christ and therefore APART from Christ, they are able to do SOMETHING so they can be identified with or be In Him?  If you are right, then Christ is wrong because He said APART from Him man can do NOTHING. Please explain.

Greetings again Samie,

 

God has given us the ability to respond in faith. When we hear the word of God spoken we can either believe what we hear or reject it. If we hear the gospel and believe the gospel and allow this new found faith to motivate us and be baptized and live the crucified and resurrected life then we have become incorporated into Christ. All of this is from God.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[Kevin H]

May I share something that may be cause for further study? A few years ago there were recorded Sabbath School lesson helps called "The Word of the Lord" first they had Leslie Harding teach. After he died they had someone named something like Jim Ayers (I believe that he may have also sang with the Kings Heralds but not positive.)

Anyway in one of these lessons the teacher pointed out that prior to St. Augustine the church believed that the power of Jesus' death was so powerful that it saved everyone except those who actively refused what Jesus did. Then Augustine changed it that everyone was lost except those who actively accepted Jesus.

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm...interesting Kevin.....which way indeed.

 

[Samie]

13 hours ago, TrevorL said:

God has given us the ability to respond in faith.

And God did that THROUGH Christ. Man's ability to respond in faith is the EFFECT of being attached to Christ INSTEAD of being the CAUSE of how to be attached to Him.

Why would Christ say APART from Him man can do NOTHING if while yet apart from Him He very well knew people can do SOMETHING to be attached to Him? Please explain.

[Samie]

12 hours ago, Kevin H said:

Anyway in one of these lessons the teacher pointed out that prior to St. Augustine the church believed that the power of Jesus' death was so powerful that it saved everyone except those who actively refused what Jesus did. Then Augustine changed it that everyone was lost except those who actively accepted Jesus.

God through Christ has saved all - Adam and Eve and all their descendants - by making all part of the body of Christ (Eph 2:11-19). Hence, everyone is heaven-bound UNTIL blotted out from the book of life for NOT overcoming evil with good (Rom 12:21). And it is the Father through the Son Who judges who the overcomers are. Overcomers will Christ not blot out from the book of life and will be seated with Him - Who Himself is also an overcomer - in His throne. Rev 3:5, 21.