The Kingdom of Heaven

[Musicman1228]

Jesus spoke of a Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus spoke and referred to a Gospel of the Kingdom. Is the gospel of the Kingdom the exact same thing as the gospel of God? What is this Kingdom and how do you get into it? Are there any advantages in being IN the Kingdom of Heaven? Are there any requirements for entry into the Kingdom of Heaven? Is there a difference between being in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God?

You first. Let's here your ideas and see where this takes us.

[Buzzards]

ahhhh; you saw that when Christ spake he contrasted the Two (2) Kingdoms

 

 

Quote

 

Musicman1228

says

You first. Let's here your ideas and see where this takes us.

 

coward, thats sounds like "Bait" on a Hook

Hee-hee -----  but I'll bite, but there is nothing in Scripture that gives a complete example of the Marriage; just Tid-Bits here and there

Proverbs 25:2

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 

Lets go this route, The Scriptures speak / contrast us as a "Family"

a Man has, lets say a Farm -- several fields, cattle, sheep and all such, equipment, and 4-5 employees

The son will eventually heir it all, but not yet, he is still a child and under the Ranch Foreman's Tutoring

The son, altho he eventually will inherit it, but; Dad is still in control, and the Son works for the Father, same as the other men

but not as an "Employee" for a paycheck, --- but because it is the "Family's, Farm ---  it belongs to him as much as it does the Father; But Dad is still the Boss

The Son, now in early adulthood, -- time to find a Bride ---, but its not the responsibility for the Father nor the Son to Train nor Raise the Young Lady

that' s her Mother's responsibility to Raise, and Train her Daughter to be fit for a Bride for the Masters Son
 

Quote

 

Gal. 4:26

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Heb.1:14

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

 

far to many think the Church is Married to Christ, and they are not;

The Church is """ESPOUSED""  not yet married

the Wedding takes place, at the Time Appointed, as taught in the Parables of Christ, and John's Revelation

Song of Solomon 6:9
My dove, my undefiled is but one;

she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her.

The daughters saw her, and blessed her;

yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

 

 

[Musicman1228]

Hey Buzz, thanks for joining the fun. I am a coward, am I? How so. You didn't say. I didn't think we knew each other well enough for you to call me names just yet. I let it go if you will.

You said, "the Wedding takes place, at the Time Appointed, as taught in the Parables of Christ, and John's Revelation."

We are totally together on this statement. Great. Something to build on.

You also said, "there is nothing in Scripture that gives a complete example of the Marriage; just Tid-Bits here and there."

And then you neglected Matt. 25: 1-13. That passage describes in a parable/prophecy a marriage where we don't even see the bride. Jesus actually never called the 'bride' the church. That identification was added later, because some expositors decided on their own that the church was the 'bride'. It's not, but we can get into that later.

What Jesus does here is reference the Hasidic marriage rites, with which all of His disciples were familiar. In it we see the servants of the Groom, the bridesmaids who are servants of the bride, and a marriage feast, which one gets into by going through a door 'at the appointed time'. What is significantly missing is the BRIDE. 

This prophecy describes what occurred in October 1844 to the Advent Movement with great accuracy. The significant, and totally overlooked and  misunderstanding fact is that these Adventists thought they were the BRIDE, when in reality they were the bridesmaids, who were to have prepared the bride for her husband. That is why Jesus did not come at that time; because not only was the bride not ready because no one told them how they were to get ready, but the bridesmaids themselves were not ready, because they thought they were the bride. Hence the delay in v.5. It is my understanding that we are still in that delay because the bridesmaids (the SDA church) STILL has no clue what their role is at the end of time. That is because we have been sidetracked by all sorts of secondary issues that have prevented us from KNOWING WHO WE ARE.

There. Got to go for now. We will talk more later after you give me your thoughts.

[Buzzards]

you posted

You first. Let's here your ideas and see where this takes us.

so I figured you were afraid to stick your neck out to far; just testin the waters 1st, I did try to put a small  Hee-Hee there so you would know it was in good fun  Maybe  shoud have just said  ""Chicken""" to go 1st  OK, so much for internet Humor

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Jn.3:28

Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom:

but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him,

rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

At the Marriage there are

• the Groom
• The Theophilus = somewhat like a Best Man, Best friend of the Groom
• The Bridesmaids
• The Bride
• The Father of the Groom
• The Mother of the Bride
• The Wedding Guest

since the Bride is an orphan, she has no Father to give her awy, but she does have a lot of ""Friends"

Song of Solomon 

I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, that ye stir not up, nor awake my love, until he please.

 

The Bride Espoused

Paul say
But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.
Not bound too, nor Yoked to men
she is as Moses saith,
free to come in and go out as she pleases
she is No servant of Man nor bound to any men

So; Who was this Apostle Paul ????
this --- Know it All --- Pharisee
 

Gen. 24 :1
And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age:
and the Lord had blessed Abraham in all things.
And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house,
that ruled over all that he had,

Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:
And I will make thee swear by the Lord, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth,
that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites,
among whom I dwell:
But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred,
and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

And the servant said unto him,
Peradventure the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land
must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest?

6 And Abraham said unto him,
Beware thou that thou bring not my son thither again.

(Beware; you do not take my son to Babylon)
The Lord God of heaven,
which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred,
and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying,
Unto thy seed will I give this land;
he shall send his angel before thee,
and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.

And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee,
then thou shalt be clear from this my oath:
only bring not my son thither again.

9 And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master,
and sware to him concerning that matter.

10 And the servant took ten camels of the camels of his master, and departed;
for all the goods of his master were in his hand: and he arose,
and went to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.

But; Abraham;
what if the chosen Bride won't come ???

in the words of this Ole Babblin Fool
Abraham replies:
then you are free;
to take a wife for my son from
the daughters of the peoples among whom we dwell
 

Abraham said
8 And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee,
then thou shalt be clear from this my oath:
only bring not my son thither again.

 

(Beware; you do not take my son to Babylon)

Paul; Hey Paul
Yes Lord
Go get a Bride for my son
But Lord;
what if the chosen Bride won't come
then you are free;
to take a wife for my son from the daughters of the Gentiles

(Beware; you do not take my son to Babylon)
 

2 Cor.11:1
Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly:
and indeed bear with me.

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Maybe that helps to Explain, why the Gospel of Paul,
at 1st glance, seems to a different Gospel than the Apostles

[Musicman1228]

The gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of the Kingdom as taught by Jesus. Check out the prophecy in Matt. 22:1-14 and we'll talk tomorrow. Good night.

[Buzzards]

40 minutes ago, Musicman1228 said:

Hey Buzz, thanks for joining the fun. I am a coward,

You also said, "there is nothing in Scripture that gives a complete example of the Marriage; just Tid-Bits here and there."

And then you neglected Matt. 25: 1-13. That passage describes in a parable/prophecy a marriage where we don't even see the bride. Jesus actually never called the 'bride' the church. That identification was added later, because some expositors decided on their own that the church was the 'bride'. It's not, but we can get into that later.

 

Hey; I could quote the  +/- places in Moses and the Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, SoS, minor Prophets, The Gospels, and the Apostles

but then the post would get 10 pages long in one post so we only touched on 1 for now

[Buzzards]

1 hour ago, Musicman1228 said:

Hey Buzz, thanks for joining the fun. I am a coward, ......................

This prophecy describes what occurred in October 1844 to the Advent Movement with great accuracy. The significant, and totally overlooked and  misunderstanding fact is that these Adventists thought they were the BRIDE, when in reality they were the bridesmaids, who were to have prepared the bride for her husband. That is why Jesus did not come at that time; because not only was the bride not ready because no one told them how they were to get ready, but the bridesmaids themselves were not ready, because they thought they were the bride. Hence the delay in v.5. It is my understanding that we are still in that delay because the bridesmaids (the SDA church) STILL has no clue what their role is at the end of time. That is because we have been sidetracked by all sorts of secondary issues that have prevented us from KNOWING WHO WE ARE.

There. Got to go for now. We will talk more later after you give me your thoughts.

O-Boy; where we do start, OK; 1st I am not an SDA, I wasn't born into that flock, God places us all right where he wants us, we are to stay our appointed rounds and be a faithful witness where he placed us, the SDA's are not the Bridesmaids; they were called to be the "" The Theophilus =  friends of the Groom

Quote

 

Jn.3:28

Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said,

I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom:

but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him,

rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

 

Ex.32:1
 

And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount,
 

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Hab.2:3
For the vision is yet for an appointed time,
but at the end it shall speak, and not lie:
though it tarry, wait for it;
because it will surely come,
it will not tarry.

2Pet.3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount,
the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron,
and said unto him,
 

Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses,
the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt,
we wot not what is become of him.

And Aaron said unto them,

Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives,
of your sons, and of your daughters,
and bring them unto me.

give me all them Ear Rings of the Gods of Egypt you are wearing;
bring them too me
 

And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears,
and brought them unto Aaron.
And he received them at their hand,
and fashioned it with a graving tool,
after he had made it a molten calf:

and they said,

These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

And when Aaron saw it,
he built an altar before it;
and Aaron made proclamation,
and said,

To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

And they rose up early on the morrow,
and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings;
and the people sat down to eat and to drink,
and rose up to play.

When you wear the ""Ear Rings"" of the Gods of Egypt
all you have is;
"""ears to hear """ the Voice of those that speak for
the Egyptian Gods
 

vs. 25 .. And when Moses saw that the people were naked;
(for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies)
Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp,
and said, ............................

 

• At the time of Millers message,
• 1st it was the wrong message
• Miller tried to combine Two prophesies into one
• The Vision was not "WRITTEN on The Tablets
• The Milliliterites still had on the Ear Rings of Egypt

and the Robes of Babylon

[Musicman1228]

Buzz, if you are going to change my posts, then I will not respond to you in kind, I will simply not respond. I wrote, "I am a coward, am I?"  And you changed it to "I am a coward," . . . .

This is NOT funny, as I have had this occur before on other forums, where people of faith decided I needed to be chided for my own understanding of salvation. I will not put up with this from you or anyone else. What I post IS MINE, not yours. So if this is sufficient warning than we are good. If not then . . . 

[Buzzards]

My apologies; did not mean to change anything; I do not like the Quote Button, very seldom do I wish to "QUOTE" the entire post;-- just the 1 or 2 points I am replying to

again; my Apologies I didn't edit correct

 

you posted

Hence the delay in v.5. It is my understanding that we are still in that delay because the bridesmaids (the SDA church) STILL has no clue what their role is at the end of time. That is because we have been sidetracked by """all sorts of secondary issues """ that have prevented us from KNOWING WHO WE ARE.

 

care to expand on --- "all sorts of secondary issues" ---

 

vs. 25 .. And when Moses saw that the people were naked;
(for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies)
Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp,
and said, ............................

 

 

[Buzzards]

On 6/23/2016 at 11:17 PM, Musicman1228 said:

 

How do you get rid of this quote box ???

 

[Buzzards]

On 6/23/2016 at 11:17 PM, Musicman1228 said:

 

How do I get rid of this Quote box, every time I click reply; not "quote" i still get a quote from Musicman

is it stuck in my clipboard; or is it the site programing ????

[Musicman1228]

Buzz, I haven't got a clue as to what to do about the quote box issue. Send a  PM to Stan, I'm sure he can help.

 

[Buzzards]

OK; then lets do some Kingdom Parables; it will also answer a couple questions on the gender of the Holy Ghost ' s. and the role he, she, it, or they play

[Musicman1228]

Lets start with trying to come to a consensus on some ground rules for this exercise.

#1 - I have come to the understanding that many (if not most) of these parables of Jesus are also prophecy concerning the role, capability, and attitude of the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the end. As the Son of God Himself said there was only ONE thing that He didn't know about the future and that is found in Matt. 24, where Jesus is giving His disciples a master class on the events of the end of time. 

Mat 24:36  "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Now as you know, many Christians believe that because of this text, that no one can know the day or the hour of the Lord's 'second'* coming; and I would say especially SDA's, because of the Oct. 22, 1844 fiasco, where these Advent believers 'went out to meet the bridegroom' believing that THEY were the bride, and He didn't come. The backlash from this is that it is now the SDA position that we should not attempt to figure out any timing of the end, but just live our lives as if Jesus is coming tomorrow. Yet the parables of Jesus (IMO) show distinct references to not only previous prophetic identities from the Old Testament, but radical NEW prophetic testimony of things to come that do not in any way relate to Israel as the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus indicated that there would be an entirely NEW and DIFFERENT Kingdom of Heaven, because Jesus took the Trusteeship of the Covenant AWAY from Israel (Matt. 21:43) in order to give it to this new Kingdom entity that WOULD accomplish the tasks for which God had designed and populated the original Kingdom of Heaven in the first place (Israel). This New Kingdom would finish what the OLD Kingdom would not.

So we need to agree that these parable/prophecies of Jesus about the Kingdom of Heaven contain not only prophecy concerning Ancient Israel, but also prophecies that involve a brand new, never been seen before, Kingdom, that at the time that Jesus was here on earth was not yet populated by anyone. Therefore, whatever Jesus says about this Kingdom of Heaven that does not readily credit Israel must involve new prophecy about a new kingdom. And because God knows the end from the beginning we can look for evidence of this NEW Kingdom in OT prophecy, and find it.

#1 - There timing in both Old and New Testament prophecy has definable beginning points and ending points, that can be established by careful study and problem solving. If you know the beginning date and the duration of the prophecy you can figure out the end date. If you know the end date and the duration you should be able to calculate the start date. 

#2 - All symbols in prophecy represent something literal. A symbol cannot represent another symbol. A symbol does not change to mean one thing in one prophecy, and another thing in another prophecy.  Example: heads, horns, and crowns. If a prophecy in one place states a certain number of heads, and horns, and crowns, and is associated with a unique symbol, then in order to be THAT same symbol in another prophecy somewhere else it must have EXACTLY the same number of heads, horns, and crowns as the original. We must agree that God has the capability to maintain the same symbolic reference points across time and space, and we must not willy-nilly change those reference points to interpret prophecy the way we want it to be.

#3 - Day/Year timing only applies on the Day/Year Calendar. Any prophecy containing stated timing that has not been fulfilled on the Day/Year calendar, is to be considered literal time.

#4 - Timing stated in Years cannot be changed into Days, weeks, or months. Timing given in a prophecy must remain in THAT in it's original form in the explanation. Therefore, if 1260 days cannot be found to have been fulfilled during the Day/Year calendar then it must remain in days and not be changed into any other form, simply for convenience.

So, if this all right with you? Take your time in looking this over, and please make suggestions as to improvements you see that would be needed to make or discussion of the Kingdom of Heaven more relevant.

[Musicman1228]

OK, here we go:

Mat 25:1  "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Mat 25:2  "Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.

Mat 25:3  "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,

Mat 25:4  but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.

Mat 25:5  "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.

Mat 25:6  "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'

Mat 25:7  "Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.

Mat 25:8  "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'

Mat 25:9  "But the prudent answered, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.'

Mat 25:10  "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.

Mat 25:11  "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'

Mat 25:12  "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'

Mat 25:13  "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

This parable of Jesus is also a prophecy of the end of time. Most Christians believe that the parables of Jesus are simply morality plays that have little or nothing to do with 'real life'; especially real life in the future. But Jesus is not called 'the greatest prophet' because he is not good at it. This prophecy is a continuation of the same prophecy that began in Matt. 24, that ends with the prophecy of the Faithful and Wise bondservant feeding his fellow bondservants their 'food' (information about the end of time) at the proper time. The understanding that has come to me is very different from that to which the SDA church subscribes, but it is consistent in the interpretation of the symbology within the prophecies of the end. I will explain this understanding on a verse by verse basis, in successive posts, so as not to give more to read at one time than is comfortable.

[Musicman1228]

Mat 25:1  "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

The word 'Then' can also be translated as 'At that time'. This indicates a specific time in the earths history when the events of this prophecy either already took place, or will take place in the future. There are recognizable historic events that can be identified and isolated as having already occurred, or will still occur because it is clear that the specific event has not yet happened.

'Then the Kingdom of Heaven' - In every case in which Jesus begins a prophecy with this phrase it indicates a prophecy about the end of time and the entity that will accomplish the defined requirements. These requirements can be defined as 'the demands of righteousness', that Jesus told John the Baptist in Matt. 3:15.

'Will be comparable' - (will be like) - indicates that what follows involves symbols. The symbol has a literal meaning that must be define within the prophecy itself.

'Ten Virgins' - In the Hasidic marriage rite the term virgin indicates 'bridesmaids', or 'servants of the bride'. A virgin is a female that has not yet 'known' a man sexually. In this case, since this is a defined symbol, virgin indicates people that are still spiritually pure, and unsullied; people that still have the first blush of their first love. The job of bridesmaids is to get the bride ready for her husband, and this was supposed to be the job of these bridesmaids as well. But since the believed they were the bride they did not actually accomplish what Jesus had commissioned them for.

'Who took their lamps' - Strong's; Lampas- From G2989; a “lamp” or flambeau: - lamp, light, torch. 'Light' indicates TRUTH. These 'bridesmaids' actually at a point in time had the truth.

'Went out to meet the bridegroom' - These people that went out to meet the Bridegroom did so on the basis of a prophecy of the time of the end found in Dan. 8:14. This is also the first indicator that those that are representatives to the Kingdom of Heaven ARE NOT THE BRIDE. The entity that is termed 'the Kingdom of Heaven' is a group of people that at a certain time in history 'went out to meet the bridegroom' according to the 2,300 Evening and Mornings prophecy, but the did this believing that THEY were the bride; and in this they got the symbology wrong. These bridesmaids 'went out to meet the bridegroom' because the servants of the groom went out ahead of the groom in order to notify the servants of the bride to begin the process of preparing the bride for her wedding. (Matt. 24:42-51). Going 'out to meet the bridegroom' indicates that they left the churches of which they were members in order to join with others of like mind that believed that Jesus was coming very soon. This is the early Advent Movement under Wm. Miller. They did this based on the study of end time prophecy, and believed that they had discovered the time when Jesus was to return to marry his bride. Unfortunately, as I stated previously, these bridesmaids believed that they were the bride, so they ignored the bride in favor of saving their own lives.

So to recap - Jesus compares the K of H (kingdom of Heaven) to bridesmaids (or servants of the bride). The job of these bridesmaids was to prepare the bride for her bridegroom, who is actually on his way to get His bride. The bridegroom is Jesus. The bridesmaids went out on the road to meet the bridegroom by leaving their secure environments (churches), and banded together to find out the timing as to when Jesus was to return to marry His bride; those that had been prepared by the bridesmaids. These bridesmaids HAD the truth 'at that time' when they recognized that they were involved in an actual fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. But they misinterpreted their role, and because they did this the bride WAS NOT prepared to meet her husband 'at the proper time'.

[Buzzards]

"Boaz commanded his young men, saying, Let her glean even among the sheaves, and reproach her not: And let fall also some of the handfuls of purpose for her, and leave them, that she may glean them, and rebuke her not." Ruth 2:15,16

 Sometimes you have to leave a few handfuls you reaped yourself so that the "maidens" know where to glean.

==========================================================================================

I knew he would figure it out, someone needs to send them too those Pastures

SoS 1:7

Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth,
(2 Question)
#1: where thou feedest,
#2: where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon:
for why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?

If thou know not, O thou fairest among women,
go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock,
and feed thy kids beside the shepherds' tents.

someone needs to show the Espoused where to find those ""Green Pastures"" and ""Still Waters""; David spake of

Ps.23.1

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

I do not want to start a bunch of Threads; knocking other posters threads to the 2nd page, I do not wish to ""Hog"" the forum; so I add this here; altho it deserves its own thread, it is relevent to the Parables, as Paul says "Ensamples / Examples" for that generation that the end of the world comes upon

In most weddings, there are groups of people: 1) the guests, , 2) the attendants of the Bride (Bridesmaids) and the Groom (Freinds of the Groom see Jn.3:29), usually a small group, and 3) the Bride and her Bridegroom. All are content and happy within their situation. But, only the Bride gets to go home with the Bridegroom and live in His House forever. She has an intimacy with Him that no one else has! And, so there is a new earth, which will be created for the “saved” guests. There are the attendants--the “King’s of the earth”--who are “saved” and who represent the guests before the Father and the Bridegroom. And, there is the Bride, who stays with her Husband in the Father’s House. (Revelation 21:22-22:5, 14)
then there are the Guest at the Wedding Feast;

then there are the other group; standing out in the cold looking in ----"Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth"

Gen.3:24

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims,
and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

and there is only one way you get past those "Cherubims"

the Bride is also mentioned in Revelation She stays in the presence of the Father and the Son. She is marked, because 1) she is submissive and yielded to her Bridegroom, guarding and obeying the terms of His marriage Covenant, 2) because she loves Him with a perfect love, 3) because she follows her Bridegroom (the Lamb) wherever He goes, and 4) because she has made herself ready--purified herself and separated herself totally unto Him. and is not defiled She belongs to Him, and her relationship with Him is intimate. He knows her, and she knows Him, and their fellowship is sweet.

regardless what you have been told --- not all are """The Bride""" in fact; most are just part of those invited to the wedding feast, not even Guest at the Wedding itself, that could be one of the reasons an understanding of the Parables and the Proverbs are of prime importance

Mark 4:13

And he said unto them,
Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.

Matt.13:51
Jesus saith unto them,
Have ye understood all these things?
They say unto him,
Yea, Lord.
Then said he unto them,

Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven
is like unto a man that is an householder,
(Now he directs them to the words of the Wise Man)
which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

The Words of Solomon; The Wise Man

SoS 7:13

The mandrakes give a smell, and at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits,

new and old,
which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved.

ie:

which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++

Matt.16:28

Verily I say unto you,
There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death,
till they """see""" the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matt.17:1
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother,
and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Paul; called to be the Chiefest of the Apostles of Christ,
the one chosen too go get the Bride for the Promised Son
and Peter, (Cephas) James and John """see"""" perceive, understand

Gal.2:1

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas,
and took Titus with me also.
....
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars,
perceived the grace that was given unto me,

and Peter, (Cephas) James and John """see"""" perceive, understand in Paul's ministry,
the Son of man coming in his kingdom

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars,
perceived the grace that was given unto me,
they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship;
that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Just because the Drs of Divinity and Professors of Theology of the church have so mangled the Epistles of Paul, doesn't mean squate, God knows what he is doing;

 

 

 

 

[Buzzards]

10 hours ago, Musicman1228 said:

Mat 25:1  "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

 

'Who took their lamps' - Strong's; Lampas- From G2989; a “lamp” or flambeau: - lamp, light, torch. 'Light' indicates TRUTH. These 'bridesmaids' actually at a point in time had the truth.

 

Matt.5:15

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel,

but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works,

and glorify your Father which is in heaven

So; What was wrong with the Lamps of the 5 foolish virgins ??????

Next verse; and here he speaks not of the 10, but of another Law

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:

I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

On 6/28/2016 at 1:54 PM, Musicman1228 said:

#1 - I have come to the understanding that many (if not most) of these parables of Jesus are also prophecy concerning the role, capability, and attitude of the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the end. As the Son of God Himself said there was only ONE thing that He didn't know about the future and that is found in Matt. 24, where Jesus is giving His disciples a master class on the events of the end of time. 

Great rule for any parable starting with "The Kingdom of God is like ..."  Sorry to interrupt your discussion on the 10 virgins.

I first considered this rule then I studied the prophecies of Matt. 13 (Sower, weeds and tares, baker, mustard seed).  The idea popped into my mind that "what if these parables were something beyond random stories; and that they were put in the order they were in for a reason.  Then, they appeared to be a prophecy concerning the evolution of the Kingdom.

I won't quote each parable, just summarize them.  In the first parable, we find what happens to the sown seed (the gospel).  Some is immediately snatched away by satan, some is immediately "killed because it is accepted on such a shallow level, some takes root, but is strangled out by the cares of the world (money, work, family relations, etc.); but some takes root; and a field (church is born).

Fast forward to the next parable.  The field (church) is growing nicely.  then the owner (Jesus) notices some tares (sticky thorny weeds that tend to cling to the wheat).  the owner (Jesus) knows that an enemy (satan) has done this; and instructs the servants to let the tares grow with the wheat (stay in the church) until the harvest (2nd coming); then separate the tares from the wheat and burn the tares (repentant are saved; unrepentant are destroyed).

Concerning the mustard seed, if the birds are the same ones referred to in the parable of the soil, maybe they're not "good" birds after all. They're probably eating all the mustard seed.

Concerning the leaven, just about everyplace else in scripture, leaven is a symbol for pride and self-righteousness (sins).  the story doesn't say whether the baker is good or evil; but it could be saying that the pride and arrogance of the church could lead it to destruction.

I'm not saying the above interpretations are correct; I'm just supporting the thesis that parables concerning the Kingdom of Heaven can indeed be prophecies.

[Musicman1228]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Great rule for any parable starting with "The Kingdom of God is like ..."  Sorry to interrupt your discussion on the 10 virgins.

I first considered this rule then I studied the prophecies of Matt. 13 (Sower, weeds and tares, baker, mustard seed).  The idea popped into my mind that "what if these parables were something beyond random stories; and that they were put in the order they were in for a reason.  Then, they appeared to be a prophecy concerning the evolution of the Kingdom.

I won't quote each parable, just summarize them.  In the first parable, we find what happens to the sown seed (the gospel).  Some is immediately snatched away by satan, some is immediately "killed because it is accepted on such a shallow level, some takes root, but is strangled out by the cares of the world (money, work, family relations, etc.); but some takes root; and a field (church is born).

Fast forward to the next parable.  The field (church) is growing nicely.  then the owner (Jesus) notices some tares (sticky thorny weeds that tend to cling to the wheat).  the owner (Jesus) knows that an enemy (satan) has done this; and instructs the servants to let the tares grow with the wheat (stay in the church) until the harvest (2nd coming); then separate the tares from the wheat and burn the tares (repentant are saved; unrepentant are destroyed).

Concerning the mustard seed, if the birds are the same ones referred to in the parable of the soil, maybe they're not "good" birds after all. They're probably eating all the mustard seed.

Concerning the leaven, just about everyplace else in scripture, leaven is a symbol for pride and self-righteousness (sins).  the story doesn't say whether the baker is good or evil; but it could be saying that the pride and arrogance of the church could lead it to destruction.

I'm not saying the above interpretations are correct; I'm just supporting the thesis that parables concerning the Kingdom of Heaven can indeed be prophecies.

I like it! FYI-in the parable/prophecy of the Wheat and Weeds, the weeds are 'darnel', a plant that looks EXACTLY like real wheat until just before the harvest. In other words, no one could know that there was even a problem with the planting of the field until the time of the harvest was near. It is only then that those that are looking for it will notice that there is a difference between the plants. That is why up until 1994 NO ONE was able to see that there were WEEDS that were sown in with the WHEAT. But only a FEW have noticed this so far. And when you tell them that there is weeds in the same field where the wheat is located (Bible) they denounce you as evil. But Jesus put this prophecy in His testimony to His own disciples for a reason, and that is so that there will actually be bondservants that know what is going on, and will be able to explain to those that WANT to understand truth, what the actual truth really is. I am going to make a VERY controversial statement: the reason why the writings of Paul (and others) are in the Bible is as a fulfillment of THIS parable/prophecy. 

[Musicman1228]

4 hours ago, Buzzards said:

Matt.5:15

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel,

but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works,

and glorify your Father which is in heaven

So; What was wrong with the Lamps of the 5 foolish virgins ??????

Next verse; and here he speaks not of the 10, but of another Law

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:

I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

 

 

The issue with the LAMPS of the bridesmaids is that they are ALL going out. What they had at the beginning of their journey to the wedding is that when they left their lamps had plenty of oil. This oil is what produces the 'light of truth'. The early Advent movement was FULL of light, because it was full of the oil of the Holy Spirit. But something happened on the way. Someone intercepted this group of bridesmaids and convinced them that THEY were the bride. (These bridesmaids are the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the end.) This was done intentionally by a prophetess that usurped the role of end time prophecy as coming exclusively from Daniel and Revelation, to a very personal prophecy that either misinterpreted the original prophecies of the end, or embellished them beyond recognition. Soon the Bridesmaids came to rely on these 'alternate' prophecies even more that the original, and soon, even forgot about the originals all together. And THAT is why the lamps of these bridesmaids that thought THEY were the bride (but were not) were going out. This is why Jesus said:

Rev 3:2  'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God.

Rev 3:3  'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

The light of truth has died inside the end time Kingdom of Heaven, because the people of this kingdom have FORGOTTEN who they are, and what they were established by God to do, at the end of the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy in Dan. 8:14. God is calling them to REMEMBER what they HAD ALREADY received and heard. Keep it, and REPENT. Repent from what? From loosing sight of the original plan which was that they were put on earth to PREPARE THE BRIDE for the coming of her Bridegroom. This people STILL believe that they are the Bride. They STILL don't have a clue that what they must to is WAKE UP to the fact that the things they had AT FIRST are about to die; Love for the words of Jesus that He spoke, the words of God in the Law and the Prophets of which Jesus spoke as the Gospel of the Kingdom, Love for the prophecies of the end in Daniel and Revelation, and most important, Love for the COVENANT OF THE KINGDOM-the 10 Commandments, as the path (narrow gate) to SANCTIFICATION. This 'assembly' has been corrupted by the 'gospel of salvation by grace through faith' that a false Apostle taught AFTER Jesus left this earth. They have rejected the testimony of Jesus that He gave to His own eyewitness disciples (Matthew, Mark and John) in favor of the testimony of a person that teaches the polar opposite of what Jesus taught while on earth. They believe that after Jesus left this earth HE changed His mind about the Gospel of the Kingdom, recognized that HE had made a MISTAKE, and corrected it by giving the GREATEST APOSTLE (according to EGW) NEW information about a NEW covenant that does not require obedience to God through the testimony of Jesus and the 10 Commandments (Rev. 12:17), but only states that anyone that CLAIMS Jesus as their personal savior is now 'saved by grace through faith', and that keeping the Commandments is not only IMPOSSIBLE for mere mortals to accomplish, but it is wholly UNNECESSARY, and if practiced is actually COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to salvation. This 'gospel' completely discounts the words that Jesus spoke about the Gospel of the Kingdom while He was here on earth, and also completely discounts the POWER of the Holy Spirit to work with those humans that desire it, to 'teach them all things' about salvation, and 'guide them into all truth', using the words of Jesus as the instruction manual (John 16:13).

Joh 16:13  "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Jesus even said that to doubt the Power of the Holy Spirit to do this is the 'unpardonable sin': 

Mat 12:31  "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

Yet this is the basis for the entire 'gospel of God' that Paul preaches. And Jesus warned against a gospel of Lawlessness that would be taught by false apostles:

Mat 24:11  "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

Mat 24:12  "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.

Grow cold for WHAT? For the words of Jesus, ONLY. His words promote the Laws of God, the words of the imposter promote lawlessness and anarchy.

The SDA church of today is not in any way like the early Advent movement of the mid-1800's. Today SDA's are JUST LIKE every other Christian church in that they too believe the gospel of Paul OVER the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as taught by Jesus Christ the Son of GOD, and which He gave to HIS OWN eyewitness disciples in order to give that message to us, so we could take THAT message to the world, and prepare the Bride for her Bridegroom. THAT is why Jesus is so ANGRY with HIS people, and expresses it in the messages to the Seven churches in Rev.2 and 3; the SDA church has been hijacked by a false prophetess (Rev. 2:18-24), and a false apostle (Rev. 2:2-6) Paul, that the Jezebel seen in that prophecy called 'the Greatest Apostle'.

At this time in earths history there is no room for obfuscation or mincing words; Satan HAS deceived the Whole World, including ALL churches, but especially the SDA church, which WAS TO HAVE BEEN the Kingdom of  the Heavens on earth, and still could be, IF they get their act together and learn the WORDS OF JESUS instead of learning the words of charlatans. 

 

[Buzzards]

10 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Great rule for any parable starting with "The Kingdom of God is like ..."  Sorry to interrupt your discussion on the 10 virgins.

I first considered this rule then I studied the prophecies of Matt. 13 (Sower, weeds and tares, baker, mustard seed).  The idea popped into my mind that "what if these parables were something beyond random stories; and that they were put in the order they were in for a reason.  Then, they appeared to be a prophecy concerning the evolution of the Kingdom.

I won't quote each parable, just summarize them.  In the first parable, we find what happens to the sown seed (the gospel).  Some is immediately snatched away by satan, some is immediately "killed because it is accepted on such a shallow level, some takes root, but is strangled out by the cares of the world (money, work, family relations, etc.); but some takes root; and a field (church is born).

Fast forward to the next parable.  The field (church) is growing nicely.  then the owner (Jesus) notices some tares (sticky thorny weeds that tend to cling to the wheat).  the owner (Jesus) knows that an enemy (satan) has done this; and instructs the servants to let the tares grow with the wheat (stay in the church) until the harvest (2nd coming); then separate the tares from the wheat and burn the tares (repentant are saved; unrepentant are destroyed).

Concerning the mustard seed, if the birds are the same ones referred to in the parable of the soil, maybe they're not "good" birds after all. They're probably eating all the mustard seed.

Concerning the leaven, just about everyplace else in scripture, leaven is a symbol for pride and self-righteousness (sins).  the story doesn't say whether the baker is good or evil; but it could be saying that the pride and arrogance of the church could lead it to destruction.

I'm not saying the above interpretations are correct; I'm just supporting the thesis that parables concerning the Kingdom of Heaven can indeed be prophecies.

Quote

 

Concerning the mustard seed, if the birds are the same ones referred to in the parable of the soil, maybe they're not "good" birds after all. They're probably eating all the mustard seed.

and

I'm not saying the above interpretations are correct; I'm just supporting the thesis that parables concerning the Kingdom of Heaven can indeed be prophecies.

 

No; you are correct, the Kingdom Parables are given 2 ways -- Kingdom of God -- and -- Kingdom of Heaven

Concerning the mustard seed,  even Job speaks of these """Dirty Birds""

Quote

and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage (The Home of) of every unclean and hateful bird.

unclean and hateful bird. -- ahh but; no-one reads Moses anymore, he was jettisoned to the Trash heap of History years ago

#2: The Parables in Matt ch. 13 are the 7 Churches of Johns Revelation

 

The Mustard

I am an Ole Sheepherder, so knowing the plants the flock feeds on is the difference between ""Profit"" and going broke, there are 2-300 plants a "Goat" can graze on; but will kill a Sheep;

now notice the 3 signs of an Animal thats been grazing on  """The MUSTARD""

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9958

Tansy mustard (Descurainia pinnata) is an annual weed that grows on dry, sandy soils in arid areas.

Intoxication occurs primarily in cattle only after large amounts of this plant have been eaten over extended periods of time.

Signs of poisoning include partial or complete blindness, inability to use the tongue, and aimless wandering.

#1: blindness,

#2: the tongue,

3: aimless wandering.

The Epistles of Paul; (atho written to congregations in his time)  are Primarily written to the Seven Churches in Johns Revelation also

then he writes to the 8th Church  ===    Colossians == The Church of the Seven Thunders of John's Revelation

thats the reason the Sabbath is not even mentioned till the Last Day Church

 

Lets start a thread on these Parables of its own

 

[Aliensanctuary]

The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" might be better rendered, The Kingdom of the Stars. One wouldn't think there are two kingdoms, the Kingdom of YHVH and the Kingdom of the Stars, although for a time, there is the Kingdom of Satan. The Kingdom of the Stars stretches across the universe of inhabited, and uninhabited worlds, star systems, and galaxies.

The Bride of the Lamb, as stated in Rev 21, is the City, the New Jerusalem, which is observed descending from outer space. The Lamb, then, is united with this starship City and becomes its power source and controller as it travels across the universe. There is no need for a Temple in the City because the Temple on Earth was used as a communications platform for humans to communicate with YHVH who may have been some great distance from them. The Earthly Temple also represented the idea of the telepathic, mass-storage of human memories/life-records via the Spirit of YHVH. 

[Musicman1228]

13 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said:

The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" might be better rendered, The Kingdom of the Stars. One wouldn't think there are two kingdoms, the Kingdom of YHVH and the Kingdom of the Stars, although for a time, there is the Kingdom of Satan. The Kingdom of the Stars stretches across the universe of inhabited, and uninhabited worlds, star systems, and galaxies.

The Bride of the Lamb, as stated in Rev 21, is the City, the New Jerusalem, which is observed descending from outer space. The Lamb, then, is united with this starship City and becomes its power source and controller as it travels across the universe. There is no need for a Temple in the City because the Temple on Earth was used as a communications platform for humans to communicate with YHVH who may have been some great distance from them. The Earthly Temple also represented the idea of the telepathic, mass-storage of human memories/life-records via the Spirit of YHVH. 

I actually like the use of 'stars', because that term is used in Daniel. But my favorite is term is "the Kingdom of the Heavens". Stars (to me) indicate individual spiritual beings. The Kingdom of the Heavens seems to indicate a corporate assembly that exists on earth irrespective of whether there is anybody populating is. It is like a Trust; a legal entity that is established into which the owner of the trust put things that are precious to him, and that have met a legal standard for occupancy. There is evidence in Matthew and John that the Kingdom of the Heavens is the name for the location ON EARTH that are searching for TRUTH that leads to Sanctification, and when THAT occurs, and they are then SEALED in Righteousness they then (at that time) enter the Kingdom of God, or as you put it, YHVH. This is clearly seen in Matt. 24:42-51 when the Faithful and Wise (Sensible) Bondservant and his fellow bondservants are sealed (the singular F & W bondservant is placed over ALL of Gods possessions). They have now entered the Kingdom of God. So the Kingdom of the Heavens is the training ground for entry into the the Kingdom of God.

[Musicman1228]

Here is one of the best (if not THE best) presentations on The Kingdom of the Heavens I have ever heard:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sot/2011/10/01/the-revelation-of-jesusspirit-of-truth

It is one hour long, and comes from a program on BlogTalkRadio that is produced by Spirit of Truth Ministry. I highly recommend it, especially since I am the co-host and show producer. I really think that you will find this presentation fascinating, and well worth the time.