Questions About DA Chapters 78 and 80

[darkeale]

Hi,

I read this chapter and had a few questions about it.

1 - From this passage:-

When the loud cry, "It is finished," came from the lips of Christ, the priests were officiating in the temple. It was the hour of the evening sacrifice. The lamb representing Christ had been brought to be slain. Clothed in his significant and beautiful dress, the priest stood with lifted knife, as did Abraham when he was about to slay his son. With intense interest the people were looking on. But the earth trembles and quakes; [757] for the Lord Himself draws near. With a rending noise the inner veil of the temple is torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand, throwing open to the gaze of the multitude a place once filled with the presence of God. In this place the Shekinah had dwelt. Here God had manifested His glory above the mercy seat. No one but the high priest ever lifted the veil separating this apartment from the rest of the temple. He entered in once a year to make an atonement for the sins of the people. But lo, this veil is rent in twain. The most holy place of the earthly sanctuary is no longer sacred.

"throwing open to the gaze of the multitude a place once filled with the presence of God" - wouldn't the evening sacrifice be taking place at the altar outside, so the veil wouldn't have been visible to the multitude? It would only be visible to someone inside the sanctuary, which could only be a priest? This is why the people were worried about Zechariah in the temple in Luke chapter 1 - they couldn't see what was going on inside so were worried that something had happened to him.

2 - From this passage:-

Nicodemus, when he saw Jesus lifted up on the cross, remembered His words spoken by night in the Mount of Olives: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14, 15. On that Sabbath, when Christ lay in the grave, Nicodemus had opportunity for reflection. A clearer light now illuminated his mind, and the words which Jesus had spoken to him were no longer mysterious. He felt that he had lost much by not connecting himself with the Saviour during His life. Now he recalled the events of Calvary. The prayer of Christ for His murderers and His answer to the petition of the dying thief spoke to the heart of the learned councilor. Again he looked upon the Saviour in His agony; again he heard that last cry, "It is finished," spoken like the words of a conqueror. Again he beheld the reeling earth, the darkened heavens, the rent veil, the shivered rocks, and his faith was forever established. The very event that destroyed [776] the hopes of the disciples convinced Joseph and Nicodemus of the divinity of Jesus. Their fears were overcome by the courage of a firm and unwavering faith

How could he have witnessed all of these events "again" considering he couldn't have witnessed them all the first time? He couldn't have seen Jesus cry "It is finished" and the veil rent as these were almost at the same time in different locations?

Would be interested to read your thoughts!

(And apologies if I've posted this in the wrong place!)

[darkeale]

Anyone?

[Green Cochoa]

Regarding your question about the veil:

As you know, there were two veils.  This is why the "inner veil" is sometimes called the "second veil" (see Hebrews 9:3).  

 

     In the offering of incense the priest was brought more directly into the presence of God than in any other act of the daily ministration. As the inner veil of the sanctuary did not extend to the top of the building, the glory of God, which was manifested above the mercy seat, was partially visible from the first apartment. When the priest offered incense before the Lord, he looked toward the ark; and as the cloud of incense arose, the divine glory descended upon the mercy seat and filled the most holy place, and often so filled both apartments that the priest was obliged to retire to the door of the tabernacle. As in that typical service the priest looked by faith to the mercy seat which he could not see, so the people of God are now to direct their prayers to Christ, their great High Priest, who, unseen by human vision, is pleading in their behalf in the sanctuary above.  {PP 353.1} 

    As the priests morning and evening entered the holy place at the time of incense, the daily sacrifice was ready to be offered upon the altar in the court without. This was a time of intense interest to the worshipers who assembled at the tabernacle. Before entering into the presence of God through the ministration of the priest, they were to engage in earnest searching of heart and confession of sin. They united in silent prayer, with their faces toward the holy place. Thus their petitions ascended with the cloud of incense, while faith laid hold upon the merits of the promised Saviour prefigured by the atoning sacrifice. The hours appointed for the morning and the evening sacrifice were regarded as sacred, and they came to be observed as the set time for worship throughout the Jewish nation. And when in later times the Jews were scattered as captives in distant lands, they still at the appointed hour turned their faces toward Jerusalem and offered up their petitions to the God of Israel. In this custom Christians have an example for morning and evening prayer. While God condemns a mere round of ceremonies, without the spirit of worship, He looks with great pleasure upon those who love Him, bowing morning and evening to seek pardon for sins committed and to present their requests for needed blessings.  {PP 353.3}  
    . . . 
     The most important part of the daily ministration was the service performed in behalf of individuals. The repentant sinner brought his offering to the door of the tabernacle, and, placing his hand upon the victim's head, confessed his sins, thus in figure transferring them from himself to the innocent sacrifice. By his own hand the animal was then slain, and the blood was carried by the priest into the holy place and sprinkled before the veil, behind which was the ark containing the law that the sinner had transgressed . . . .  {PP 354.2} 

     Once a year, on the great Day of Atonement, the priest entered the most holy place for the cleansing of the sanctuary. The work there performed completed the yearly round of ministration.  {PP 355.2}  
     On the Day of Atonement two kids of the goats were brought to the door of the tabernacle, and lots were cast upon them, "one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat." The goat upon which the first lot fell was to be slain as a sin offering for the people. And the priest was to bring his blood within the veil, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat. "And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgression in all their sins; and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness."  {PP 355.3}  

In the passages above, the terms "inner veil," "door of the tabernacle," "apartments," and "first apartment" are of note.  The priest sometimes had to "retire to the door" when the glory was seen from over the veil between the two "apartments."  In front of that door is also where the sacrifice would occur.  As the people looked toward the holy place during that sacrifice, if the door were open, they would be permitted to see into the first apartment only.  When once the inner veil was torn, they could see all the way inside during that sacrificial service.

Notice that the Bible seems to emphasize only the "inner veil" as being a partition.

"And he put the table in the tent of the congregation, upon the side of the tabernacle northward, without the veil." (Exodus 40:22)

"And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the veil:" (Exodus 40:26)

(See also Leviticus 24.)

That inner veil seems to be called "THE veil."  It is the main one focused upon in the Bible.

"And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom." (Mark 15:38)

Clearly, from the fact that the people were able to see into the inner sanctuary, we can know that the door in the outer one was open at the time of the sacrifice--which is implied in scripture as routine during the service.

 

[Green Cochoa]

Regarding Nicodemus, it is clear that he was "again" reviewing the events in his mind, from memory.  This passage does not indicate that he had witnessed the events personally, only that he reflected on them.  He may have been informed by other witnesses as to what had happened, because Jesus' trial and crucifixion were events on nearly everyone's mind at that time.  An interesting passage that touches on this follows.

     According to their custom, the people brought their sick and suffering to the temple courts, inquiring, Who can tell us of Jesus of Nazareth, the Healer? Some had come from far to see and hear him who had healed the sick and raised the dead to life. With persistent earnestness they asked for him. They would not be turned away. But they were driven from the temple courts, and the people of Jerusalem could not fail to see the difference between this scene and the scenes of Christ's life.  {YI, April 25, 1901 par. 6}  
     On every side was heard the cry, "We want Christ, the Healer!" A world without a Christ was blackness and darkness, not only to the disciples, but to the sick and suffering, to the priests and rulers. The Jewish leaders and even the Roman authorities found it harder to deal with a dead Christ than with a living Christ.  {YI, April 25, 1901 par. 7}  
     The people learned that Jesus had been put to death. Inquiries were made regarding his death. The particulars of his trial were kept as private as possible, but during the time when he was in the grave, his name was on thousands of lips, and the report of his mock trial and of the cruelty of the priests and rulers was circulated everywhere.  {YI, April 25, 1901 par. 8}  
     By men of intellect the priests were called upon to explain the prophecies concerning the Messiah, and while trying to frame some falsehood in reply, the priests became like men insane. Upon many minds rested the conviction that the Scriptures had been fulfilled.  {YI, April 25, 1901 par. 9}  

However, Nicodemus is said to have been at the scene of the crucifixion.

Nicodemus, and Joseph of Arimathea, had not been summoned to the Sanhedrim council, and their voices had nothing to do with condemning Jesus. They were present at his crucifixion, but unable to change or modify his terrible sentence.  {3SP 149.1}  

As Mrs. White places Nicodemus at the crucifixion scene, my understanding would agree with yours that he would not have also witnessed the rent veil, at least not the rending of the veil.  He may have seen it after the fact.

[Gregory Matthews]

My thinking generally goes along with Green.

I would assume that after the veil was torn it remained for a while for the people to see.  It is not said that he actually saw it at the time it was torn.  But, he could have seen it afterwards.

[Ellen]

My first reaction to the question is that when Jesus spoke of being lifted up at the night visit he was informed more than we are told.  And the meaning of that visit all came back to him when the events Jesus fortold were "re enacted"