Son Marries Father's Virgin Wife?

[Dr. Shane]

This morning Paster Doug Batchelor is discussing if King Solomon married his father's virgin wife (1 Kings 1:1-4, 15 & Cant. 6:13) and the symbolism of this in relation to Christ and the church.

"1. Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat.

2. Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.

3. So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king.

4. And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him: but the king knew her not.

5. Then Adonijah the son of Haggith exalted himself, saying, I will be king: and he prepared him chariots and horsemen, and fifty men to run before him.

15. And Bathsheba went in unto the king into the chamber: and the king was very old; and Abishag the Shunammite ministered unto the king." 1 King 1

"Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? as it were the company of two armies." "Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck." Canticles 6:13; 4:9

[Clio]

Shane,

Why do so many of your posts have to do with some aspect of sex? It's really getting old.

It seems like you're deliberately trying to titillate or open up a discussion that is going to focus on some aspect of sexuality.

Give over already.

[Dr. Shane]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, this doesn't have anything to do with sex.

The family is sick so we stayed home this morning and watched the sermons on 3ABN. The sermon was about the symbolism of Christ and the church that is involved in this story.

For one: Christ is our Brother and our Spouse just as the shulamite was Solomon's sister and spouse. When we pray to God we say "Our Father" and when Christ prayed He said "Our Father".

What other symbolism do others see?

[cricket]

By mere definition, the term "virgin" elicits sexual connotations.

But you already knew that as your background is in business--such a term would be used for "marketing" the thread.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Cricket said:

By mere definition, the term "virgin" elicits sexual connotations.

---

In the minds of some that may be true. Others might consider virgin olive oil is to be coveted. However in the context we know olive oil is not the subject.

Since we are living in the prince of darknesses domain, and each have to some degree, given themselves over to his control, without the keeping power of the Holy Spirit it is almost automatic to arrive at a base idea when the subject of sex is mentioned, not taking time to consider that it was God Who created the sexual nature of man.

It is good to remember Gen 1:31;2:18, [:"red"]"Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was excellent in every way."

Now the Lord God said, It is not good (sufficient, satisfactory) that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper meet (suitable, adapted, complementary) for him."

[/]

Not only did our Father make them for each other, He chose to create them with inherent capacity for the most intimate physical union a Father could devise for His children, a union so pleasurable that only in the estate of the whole and perfect kingdom could self control treat this most sacred union with the respect that a Holy God would ask of His children.

This union was meant to reflect the ideal union of the spiritual, heretofore revealed by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but trashed by the entrance of sin (disobedience), by the enemy of souls. The same root word describing 'Adam knew Eve', is found in both Jesus' and our Father's relationships to Their children.

[:"red"] "Then they said to Him, Where is this Father of Yours? Jesus answered, You know My Father as little as you know Me. If you knew Me, you would know My Father also.

" [/] John 8:19 AMP

[:"red"] "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. " [/] John 17:3 KJV

Our inability to appreciate the sacred wonder of the physical union by men and women in a proper manner, without shame and approved by God, is not a result of God's wishes, but a result of our own minds having been sullied by the acceptance of the ideas of the enemy of souls, which but for the grace of God, would be an eternal loss.

We, children of the Holy One, will have that original desire of God fulfilled in entirety, according to His will as revealed in the Word.

[:"red"] "For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [ by God]." [/]

1 Corinthians 13:12 AMP All parenthesis, brackets their's LHC

[Gregory Matthews]

The term "virgin wife" in the English speaking world, of the 21st cent., could not have a meaning other than one associated with sex.

Yes, Shane, as he has been told several times, attempts to marked his product (posts) by attaching them to something that is considered sexual. As is otherwise done in advertising, his marketing often seems to promise more than it delivers.

[Dr. Shane]

You will have to forgive me. I attend my childrens' Sabbath school with them and study their lesson with them so I didn't realize this was part of this week's Sabbath School lesson.

In a historical context, the word virgin has been interchangable with maiden or young, unmarried woman. It is not necessarily a sexual term.

Notice how Abraham's servant used the word in his prayer to God. "I stand by the well of water; and it shall come to pass, that when the virgin cometh forth to draw water" He used the word in the context of maiden or damsel.

In Leviticus 21 we see the term used again in the context of a young, unmarried woman. "And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband"

Deuteronomy 32:25 uses the word in the clear context of young woman. "The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."

2 Samual 13:18 also uses the word in the context of a young, unmarried woman. "And she had a garment of divers colours upon her: for with such robes were the king's daughters that were virgins apparelled."

The word is used in a symbolic context in 2 Kings 19:21 "The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised thee"

In Ester 2:2 we see the word used in the context of young, unmarried women. "Let there be fair young virgins sought for the king".

I could go on and on and on. The word virgin in the Bible in some applications specifically means a person that has not had sexual intercourse and in other applications is used interchangably with words meaning young, unmarried woman.

* * * - - - * * *

In the context of this topic, the word virgin does mean a woman that has not had sexual intercouse - although that doesn't make the thread about sex. However the shulamite was David's wife and yet never had intercouse with him. After he died it seems that Solomon took her has his wife and she appears to be the bride of the Song of Songs.

[Dr. Shane]

Maybe some people spend more time with Hollywood than with the Bible so the 21st century meaning of words means more to them than the Biblical meaning.

Now one thing is for sure. Those that studied their Sabbath school lesson would have known exactly what this thread was about from its title. It makes one wonder how many are actually studying their lesson.

[Gregory Matthews]

Shane, there certainly are historical dictionaries of the English language.

But, as I said, in 21st Cent. English, it clearly has a sexual connotation, when it is applies to a human.

I am looking right now at an English dictionary. That dictionary has mulltiple meanings. One such applies to Virgo, in the Zodiac. Another defination applies to an elemental form of matter. But, in all cases of the definations that apply to humans, a sexual connotation is implied.

You have responded with a reference to certain O.T> Biblical texts. That is an inappropriate response for the following reasons:

1) Your Biblical response is based upon a Hebrew word, translated into English. That Hebrew word had a dual meaning. It cannot be said that English words which are translations of Hebrews words have exactly the same set of meanings that the Hebrew word had, unless you establish such. You did not do that.

2) Modern English translations which use the work "Virgin" either are doing so because they are endebted to the English of King James (1611), or because they have bought into the Hebrew meaning which did have a sexual connotation.

[Gregory Matthews]

Shane, one who lives in a 21st cent. English speaking country can be expected to communicate in 21st cent. English, not a language of hundreds of years ago.

You refer to the Bible. O.K. Let us look at it. I Kings 1:3 tells us that the woman involved was a Shunammite. Song of Solomon 6:13 tells us that woman was a Shulammite.

Shane, I spend enough time reading the Bible, both the OT and the NT to recognize that Shunammite is not the same as Shulammite. They are two different words. They have two different spellings.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "Maybe some people spend more time with Hollywood than with the Bible so the 21st century meaning of words means more to them than the Biblical meaning."

That kind of a response is beneath the dignity of. . . [You fill in the blanks, many things could apply.].

In the last part of the above, you refer to Biblical meanings. As I have pointed out, they are two different Biblical words. I have spent enought time to immediately see that.

[Dr. Shane]

As I mentioned before, I do not study the adult lesson due to my involvement in my childrens' Sabbath school. I do not even have an adult quaterly in my home.

I did watch Doug Batchelor's Sabbath school and I called an old friend in Minnesota and chatted with him about the study. For those interested in staying on topic this is a good one. Those of us that don't study the adult Sabbath school lesson really missed out this week.

Quote:

---

Let us look at it. I Kings 1:3 tells us that the woman involved was a Shunammite. Song of Solomon 6:13 tells us that woman was a Shulammite.

---

It is a little deeper than that.

Quote:

---

“O Perfect One.” Alternately, “O Shunammite” or “O Shulammite.” The term הַשּׁוּלַמִית (hashshulammit) has been variously translated: “Shulammite maiden” (NEB); “maiden of Shulam” (JB); “O maid of Shulem” (NJPS); “the Shulammite” (KJV; NASB; NIV). The meaning of the name הַשּׁוּלַמִית is enigmatic and debated...

Some scholars suggest that “Shul/nammite” refers to Abishag, the beautiful virgin from the village of Shunem who warmed elderly King David and was sought by Adonijah (1 Kgs 2:13- 25). Other scholars argue that Abishag has been imported in the Song on too slender grounds.

---

This is good, let's stay on topic now.

[Gregory Matthews]

Shane is correct that both women may have come from Shunem (an alternative spelling to the Shulam that Shane used).

However, the fact that the two women may have both come from Solem (a modern spelling) does not mean that they are the same.

One susggestion is that the phrase "woman of Shulem" was a phrase that meant woman of beauty, and that the women from that city were known for thier beauty.

In any case, other than possibly comming from the same city, there is no evidence to indicate that they were the same woman. It is simply speculative. And it is an interesting speculation.

Regardless of all of that, the fact remains that, as has been pointed out in various ways, Shane does sometiems market his posts in a manner that is suxually suggestive, but does not deliver what it seems to promise. The title of this thread is simular to what would appeal to many adolescent males.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

Regardless of all of that, the fact remains that, as has been pointed out in various ways, Shane does sometiems market his posts in a manner that is suxually suggestive, but does not deliver what it seems to promise. The title of this thread is simular to what would appeal to many adolescent males.

---

I think we can stay away from personal insults. Let's be a little more mature than that.

Is there anyone that has a copy of the adult Sabbath School lesson that can share with us exactly what it says about this lesson?

[cricket]

You'll find the material in the Sabbath School section of this forum. The Royal Love Song

[Gregory Matthews]

Shane, the following is a personal insult that applies directly to me. I am the one who mentioned 21st Cent. English:

"Maybe some people spend more time with Hollywood than with the Bible so the 21st century meaning of words means more to them than the Biblical meaning."

The implication of the above is that I spend more time with Hollywood than with the Bible.

You can take the comments regarding the title you have given to this thread as a personal insult if you choose. Those comments simply reflect the perceptions some have about you that have been shared with you other times.

No, I do not have any desire to prolong this discussion--a discussion that you have dismissed out of hand. But, when you make a statement about maturity, I have to have a good laugh, and remind you of your Hollywood comment.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

"Maybe some people spend more time with Hollywood than with the Bible so the 21st century meaning of words means more to them than the Biblical meaning."

---

I am afraid you have misunderstood what I was saying. I would not insult a moderater in a public forum. What I was saying was that students of the Bible are going to read words with a Biblical meaning and not just a modern meaning. The same is true for those that read a lot of Ellen White. They will read words with a 19th century meaning and not just a 21st century meaning.

[Dr. Shane]

Unfortunately I couldn't find where Abishag is discussed in the lesson in the Sabbth School section. Next Sabbath I will see if I can get a quarterly at church.

[cricket]

You can view a complete quarterly here: Sabbath School Lessons

Now, no need to wait until Sabbath!

[Dr. Shane]

Thanks for the link, Chris. I read through last week's lesson and there is no mention of Abishag but it is full of talk about sex. Those that don't want to talk about that must really be upset about last week's lesson

Anyway, I called my friend in Minnesota again. I know he doesn't have 3ABN so I had thought that he had read about Abishag in the lesson. Well, it turns out that he studies his lesson with a study Bible. The same thing Doug Bachelor was talking about during the Sabbath School lesson (Abishag), was in his study Bible.

So the idea that Abishag, (David's virgin wife) is the shulamite of the Song of Songs is published in several venues.

It adds to the possible symbolism of the Song of Songs.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Shane said:

This morning Paster Doug Batchelor is >>discussing if King Solomon married his father's virgin wife <<

---

[:"red"] "

' If there is a man who lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

" [/] Leviticus 20:11 NASB

Re: >> << I seriously doubt it.

[Dr. Shane]

Ahhhhhh, but don't forget, "'til death do us part"

"For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband." Romans 7:2

Furthermore, remember she was still a virgen so she never actually "knew" his father David.

Also note in 1 Kings 2:17 Adonijah, a son of David, asked for Abishag to be his wife. Abishag, his father's young, beautiful wife. "And king Solomon answered and said unto his mother, And why dost thou ask Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? ask for him the kingdom also; for he is mine elder brother" ibid 22. So Solomon denyed Adonijah's request. It is not that far fetched to think Solomon himself took the young beauty for himself.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

Shane said:

Ahhhhhh, but don't forget, "'til death do us part"

---

Yes, I had forgotten that instruction.

I find it very uncomfortable to think of marrying my father's wife, who happens to be my step-mother, although my father has been gone for many years. And I know my mother, albeit step, would be horrified if she even thought anyone would think such a thing could or would occur. There is no doubt the perversions of this world cause me distress, and to think I might add to that same possible perversion is entirely repugnant to me.

[:"red"] "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. " [/] Genesis 6:5 NASB

[melvin mccarty]

Should look a little farther here. Seems David and Solomon accepted the heathen practice of the son inheriting all his father's harem. Check the story of Absolom in this context. I doubt you could call Abishag David's wife...the Bible doen't. Maybe concubine. He already had a flock of wives and concubines any one of whom could have warmed him up. Or they could have found a hot water bottle or just turned up the thermostat !

Seems the heat he wanted was not exactly the kind that a thermometer registers. Oh well !!!!

mel