Who's Afraid of Government?

[Aliensanctuary]

People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.

[lazarus]

5 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said:

People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.

Seems like the police will soon be afraid if not already.

[JoeMo]

The government has always been (and should be) afraid of the people; as well the should be.  It is people who overthrow governments.  That's why government spends so much money and time keeping track of us and squashing those who disagree with them.  Sometimes they are justified in doing so; and sometimes they are not.

[Rossw]

Is the government afraid I the people? Don't think so. Well...on second thought, the reason for the government spying on the people is out of fear. But at this point with the government systems in place they fear the people less and less.

[Aliensanctuary]

Governments tend towards tyranny, leaving piles of bodies in their wakes. I suppose that's why the scriptures refer to them as Beasts, beasts that murder and trample and try to remove all opposition to their rule. Although coups do succeed from time to time, there is little or no improvement in the lot of the common people, while the tyranny of the new government often goes from bad to worse.

With today's high tech weapons and warfare, farmers with shotguns would stand little chance of overthrowing the government. If the BLM people decide to get really nasty, they could create a lot of chaos and death with government-supplied weapons while they burn cities down. Who knows, maybe the rioters are on the secret government payroll to help advance its nefarious ends, which would be totalitarianism and merciless military rule.

That might be true for terrorists who might be permitted to take over the US by massacring Congress and Pentagon officials, and any other bureaucrats and politicians who are not needed to establish Sharia and Islam in the country.

Maybe that scenario will never happen if Russia and China, in concert, bomb the USA into oblivion.

In northern Idaho there is a FEMA camp being built, and funny thing, the building materials are coming in on unmarked railroad cars, not on the highways. I have a sister-in-law living not too far away. Whenever she goes into a restaurant or other business where the topic is being discussed, it suddenly gets quiet.

[Tom Wetmore]

Afraid of the government in this country is like being afraid of being eaten by sharks.  Of all the human deaths by animals, this is one of the lowest risks.  A long list of animals that kill far more humans.  Cows kill more humans than sharks.  But people get whipped into a frenzy over the occasional shark attack and way over-react.  

Paranoia.  Plain and simple paranoia.

[Robert]

Well, SDA above all other Christians should know how it will go down. Maybe not the exact timeline or details, but how it will end up with a political-religious power lording it over the masses. 

[Rossw]

Yes there is cause for political concern with the SDA eschetology in mind. Tom's response is akin to the government..."just relax and let us take care of everything for you". That seems to be the mantra for politics in the SDA church too. "Trust the scholars and everything will be just fine". But it's all about control in the end. Whether it's control over the body, mind, or spirit that's what those in power always seek to control, just depends on if we are talking entertainment, religion, or politics.

Tom, do you believe the second beast of Revelation 13 is the US?

[CoAspen]

Quote

 But it's all about control in the end.

True statement, but who or whom wants that control is very subjective! There are those who want the church to think one way and for the others a different way. I would suggest that many with in the church would like to 'mandate' those thoughts and ideas. As individuals we are only beholden to the person we believe in first and last. For christians I would presume that person is God. 

We do not 'know' the truth, only small bits and pieces, clouded by our own situation, that is, the context of our lives. Those who distrust the scholars and prefer their own interpretation have every right to think that way. However there is a big 'but' in the way, what makes those individuals interpretation anymore 'correct'!

[Rossw]

There is only 1 truth, not many truths. Not saying I have all truth but if we all seek after truth we must all come to the same conclusions eventually at some point.

[Guest guest]

Afraid of government?  No.  Distrustful?  Yes.  That is as it should be.  The old quote, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" is very true.  Government lives to enlarge its powers and increase its control over its citizens.  That is why apathy about how government works, and the desire for government to "take care" of us are so destructive and dangerous.  Both allow government to grow into forms dangerous to liberty.

[Guest guest]

On 7/20/2016 at 0:47 PM, Tom Wetmore said:

Afraid of the government in this country is like being afraid of being eaten by sharks.  Of all the human deaths by animals, this is one of the lowest risks.  A long list of animals that kill far more humans.  Cows kill more humans than sharks.  But people get whipped into a frenzy over the occasional shark attack and way over-react.  

Paranoia.  Plain and simple paranoia.

Ignorance.  Plain and simple ignorance.  It's pretty obvious you have never studied history.

[CoAspen]

Quote

Afraid of the government in this country is like being afraid of being eaten by sharks.  Of all the human deaths by animals, this is one of the lowest risks.  A long list of animals that kill far more humans.  Cows kill more humans than sharks.  But people get whipped into a frenzy over the occasional shark attack and way over-react.  

Paranoia.  Plain and simple paranoia.

Quote

Ignorance.  Plain and simple ignorance.  It's pretty obvious you have never studied history.

Hmmmm...how well do you know TW, went to school and studied with him? Personal acquaintance?

There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

[joeb]

On 8/9/2016 at 9:00 PM, CoAspen said:

Hmmmm...how well do you know TW, went to school and studied with him? Personal acquaintance?

There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

I'm not "guest" but I can answer this very simply.  It's such a fundamental truth I'm pretty amazed that you can't see it.  Tom reveals what he knows and does not know by what he posts.  We all do that.  It's a fundamental truth of human nature that we can only speak knowledgeably about the things we know thoroughly and understand well.  

It's really apparent that Tom has never read and understood the lessons found Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".  If he had he could not have honestly said what he did.  It's also apparent that he doesn't even know the history of the US.  Our founding fathers set up our government with a very weak Presidency.  Now we have a President who has given himself the power to hold any US citizen for as long as he desires without due process.  The only thing he is required to do is accuse the person of being a terrorist.  He can also kill US citizens anywhere in the world on nothing more than an accusation of terrorism....     Also, our founding fathers made right to have and hold personal property an almost sacred right.  There was very little leeway given in how this could be done.  Now?  The government can come in and take your business away from you, not tell you why, and if you speak about this publicly they have given themselves the power to jail you for their violation of your consitituion rights.  

Our current government has also weaponized the IRS to attack it's political opponents.

This is not a government of which we shoud be distrustful?  Tom is displaying massive ignorance.

[CoAspen]

You are displaying massive arrogance! You are interpreting history for your own story. Your words demonstrate a lack of basic understanding of many things and simply say it is others who are not knowledgeable. You have apparently built a philosophy of fear for yourself. But...enough of all this....

[Rossw]

16 hours ago, CoAspen said:

You are displaying massive arrogance! You are interpreting history for your own story. Your words demonstrate a lack of basic understanding of many things and simply say it is others who are not knowledgeable. You have apparently built a philosophy of fear for yourself. But...enough of all this....

I didn't get any of those feelings from Joeb's post.

[joeb]

On 8/19/2016 at 7:34 PM, CoAspen said:

You are displaying massive arrogance! You are interpreting history for your own story. Your words demonstrate a lack of basic understanding of many things and simply say it is others who are not knowledgeable. You have apparently built a philosophy of fear for yourself. But...enough of all this....

So, if I claim to be a knowledgable atomic scientist, and I've never read or understood anything about it, and start saying things that simply are not true no one should ever be able to discern the fact that I'm speaking out total ignorance?  And anyone who does recognize the fact that I'm speaking out of my ignorance on the subject is arrogant?  What balderdash.  

Besides, I can prove what I've said here.  Any student of history knows what I've said is true.  Ever read de Toqueville's "Democracy in America", and "American Institutions and Their Influence"?  He confirms everything I've said here about the political history of the US.  Imagine that. A neutral, outside observer/researcher agreeing with everything I've said.   He spent more than two years in the US in the early 1800's doing his research and he had all kinds of governmental documents opened to him as well as interviewing literally thousands of people.   Beyond that, he was, and still is, considered to be an astute political mind. 

I've just given you the documentation you need.  Are you willing to investigate the issue, and disturb your preconceptions?  I doubt it very much.  The books won't cost you a penny.  All it will cost you is the time it takes to learn the truth.

Do you really think I'd come here and say these things if I had no evidence to back them up?