Scientists say....

[Robert]

Once again the pretentious, scientific community has spoken.  This time they have announced that human nature is good.  Read it for yourself:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-probe-human-nature-and-discover-we-are-good-after-all/

[Robert]

• Did Jesus teach that human nature is good?  No!  Read Matthew 19:17
• Did the Apostle Paul teach that humanity is basically good? Again, no!  Read Romans 3:12

 

[Outta Here]

Interesting article. It is my experience, however that in general, people are pretty good. People tend to be reactive...when met with pleasant, kindness from others, they most often respond likewise. 

[Geoarrge]

Appealing to Scripture is not going to be an effective rebuttal to these scientists. We're all here, experiencing this kind of existence because God's authority has been called into question.  So, it cannot be taken for granted especially in a case like this.   And it's also unhelpful to conflate goodness in the Biblical sense, meriting eternal reward; and goodness in the earthly sense, being the sort of person most people would like as a neighbor under normal conditions.  If we can't make that distinction, it's no wonder they think proving people aren't always jerks equates to throwing basic Christian doctrine on its head. 
 

[Robert]

On 7/31/2016 at 4:55 PM, Aubrey said:

...in general, people are pretty good. 

"Many a man of cultured intellect and pleasant manners, who would not stoop to what is commonly regarded as an immoral act, is but a polished instrument in the hands of Satan. The insidious, deceptive character of his influence and example renders him a more dangerous enemy to the cause of Christ than are those who are ignorant and uncultured." [GC 509]

What do you do with the above?.

[Robert]

Here's more:

"It is true that there may be an outward correctness of deportment without the renewing power of Christ. The love of influence and the desire for the esteem of others may produce a well-ordered life. Self-respect may lead us to avoid the appearance of evil. A selfish heart may perform generous actions....All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin." SC 58,60

 

 

[Outta Here]

7 hours ago, Robert said:

"Many a man of cultured intellect and pleasant manners, who would not stoop to what is commonly regarded as an immoral act, is but a polished instrument in the hands of Satan. The insidious, deceptive character of his influence and example renders him a more dangerous enemy to the cause of Christ than are those who are ignorant and uncultured." [GC 509]

What do you do with the above?.

Many a man...does not mean all men, nor does it mean most men. As I said previously, it is my experience that in general, people are pretty good (not perfect, not free from sin, not blameless).

[Robert]

2 hours ago, Aubrey said:

... As I said previously, it is my experience that in general, people are pretty good (not perfect, not free from sin, not blameless).

Not perfect...not free from sin, not blameless isn't good, it's bad....

[Outta Here]

Potayto, potahto. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Be nice. People will be nice in return. I will not beat myself up for being human; been there, done that. God wants me to be happy and to be alive. So, that's what I'm going to do. 

[Robert]

8 hours ago, Aubrey said:

Potayto, potahto. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Be nice. People will be nice in return.

Who needs Christ?...just be nice.  

This is self-righteousness on steroids.  

This is why the average Joe doesn't need Christ.  He says, "I'm as good as the Christians....I don't kill, steal or cheat on my wife.  I'm good to my kids".

But Christ (yes Christ) states, "Without Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).  Did He means it or was He joking?

[Outta Here]

Never said we didn't need Christ. Never said we were self-righteous. Never said we could do anything without Christ.

What I said, several times, is that it is my experience that in general, people are pretty good.

Three times I have said it now. If this were a cold sales call, I'd  hang up the phone now. I'm sorry that we have to end the conversation this way, but clearly we have reached a point where continually talking won't get us anywhere.

Be blessed in your day. Be good. Be kind. Be courageous. Trust in the Lord with all your heart!

[Robert]

19 minutes ago, Aubrey said:

Never said we didn't need Christ. Never said we were self-righteous. Never said we could do anything without Christ.

Here's what you said: "I wouldn't worry too much about it. Be nice. People will be nice in return"

You didn't mention Christ....You said, "be nice".  That', on it's own, is a self-righteous statement.  

Have a nice day...

[Outta Here]

Thanks, Robert! You too! 

[Robert]

Psalm 51:5.  David was “shapen in iniquity” from his very birth.  This was his spiritual condition since physically he was handsome [1 Samuel 16:12].  The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2].  It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14]. [J. Sequeira]

[Robert]

4 hours ago, Aubrey said:

What I said, several times, is that it is my experience that in general, people are pretty good.

Anyway, Aubrey has bowed out. So this is open to others.

How does one know, by experience, that someone is good?  What is your measuring stick?  Can that device, whatever it is, know the motive?

According to the Bible we are born bent-to-self - meaning we are born self-centered.

 Yes sinners do good things outwardly, but what's the motive?  

The Bible answer is always the same:  For something in return.

Luke 6:33 If you (a believer) do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.

34 And if you (a believer) lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.

 

[Robert]

Let me put it another way:  If you were to meet fallen Lucifer you would think that he was the kindest, sweetest man on  the face of the earth.  You'd think he was a holy man.  

Why do I state this?  Because of what Paul says:

2 Cor 14...Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness.

[Robert]

17 minutes ago, Robert said:

34 And if you (a believer) lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.

Now here's agape: "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." (verse 35)

Notice the motive here is not to get something back, namely your cash. Agape loves its enemies unconditionally.  Agape gives "to everyone who asks... and if anyone takes" (verse 30) agape doesn't demand it back.  Agape lives only for others, never self.  All self-seeking is sin (see 1 Cor 13:5).  

Therefore we are a bunch of sinners, not "nice" people. 

 

 

[Robert]

This is what the gospel does - it places men and women's self-confidence & pride in their goodness in the dust of the ground.  Only then can one be clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

[Robert]

We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. Then we shall know that our own righteousness is indeed as filthy rags, and that the blood of Christ alone can cleanse us from the defilement of sin, and renew our hearts in His own likeness. SC 28/29

[Raphael]

I just heard this.. It sounds amazing.. The law is elementary and the spirit of the law is college..

Motives and purposes can be wrapped and bundled-concealed in super sophisticated multiple layers but in very end still always for short-term self interests ahh..

[Rossw]

Who ultimately decided what is right and good? 

To get philosophical, man cannot in himself decide what is right and good other wise good is subjective. 

Other scientists would say man is not good. See the documentary "(Dis)honesty: the truth about lies"

Is it possible those who are nice and cordial to us are lying to us?

[Robert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw6IDSCmkD8

 

[Robert]

Quote

In the above video the speaker concluded this: "Reminding people about their own moral fiber does change how people behave."

Humans naturally want to be viewed as good - our love of self (iniquity) dictates this. If our minds are on morality, like reciting the Ten Commandments, we tend to be honest on how many of the Ten Commandments we can recite. Why? Because we want to be viewed as moral.

The Bible calls this reaction "self-righteousness". Self-righteousness is an outward righteousness, produced by human nature, for a selfish motive - namely, to look good. This too is a lie for it is not the genuine article. 

[Robert]

18 minutes ago, Robert said:

Humans naturally want to be viewed as good - our love of self (iniquity) dictates this. If our minds are on morality, like reciting the Ten Commandments, we tend to be honest on how many of the Ten Commandments we can recite. Why? Because we want to be viewed as moral.

The Bible calls this reaction "self-righteousness". Self-righteousness is an outward righteousness, produced by human nature, for a selfish motive - namely, to look good. This too is a lie for it is not the genuine article. 

What does Jesus say about humans doing good?  Does He say we can do some good things?  No! What He states is "without Me you can do nothing" - nothing good, that is.

 Anyone who believes that mankind can do genuine good works - outside Christ dwelling in the heart by faith - is essentially a pagan!  Not only pagan, but a very self-deceived pagan.