Calif. Execution Postponed Indefinitely

[Dr. Shane]

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Even the constitution banning slave labor exempted prisoners from that amendment

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Better worded, even the Constitution distinguishes slave labor from prison labor. It would have been insulting to the slaves to free criminals from thier due sentences at the same time that the slaves were freed.

Big difference. A slave is not a criminal. A slave has done nothing to deserve being enslaved. A slave does not have a debt to pay to society. Prisoners are criminals. Prisoners are being punished. Prisoners have a debt to pay to society.

[Dr. Shane]

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The only reason why tabacco is not banned is because many senators from the south where tabacco is grown would be opposed to it.

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I will let that arguement fall by its own weight.

The sin tax has been controversial since President Washington first taxed whiskey. I do not see it as being ethical that society depends on taxes made off from sinful vices in order to fund public programs. It makes society, as a whole, dependant on these vices.

[Dr. Shane]

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It does not solve the prison overpopulation does it.

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Follow the logic.

• Hard labor = undesirable jobs (not whips and chains)
• Prison becomes less comfortable & less desirable
• Prison sentences become shorter (which decreases overpopulation)
• Prison sentences become a deterant (where capital punishment has failed)

[CyberGuy]

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Follow the logic.

* Hard labor = undesirable jobs (not whips and chains)

* Prison becomes less comfortable & less desirable

* Prison sentences become shorter (which decreases overpopulation)

* Prison sentences become a deterant (where capital punishment has failed)

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This is not working is it? If this prison sentences was working we should be seeing a decrease in prison population not an increase. Look at the link I provided the above post. Since 1981 when the war on drugs started the prison population per capita has skyrocketed to 800 per 100,000.

That is 8 tenth of 1 percent of the total population of the USA is behind bars. Which tells us the laws are not working. Prison does not work. We need to try something else.

[CyberGuy]

Regarding the sin tax.

There is a heavy tax on alcohol and tabacco in California. Tobacco are taxes over 100 percent and alcohol also has a heavy tax on it. It is called a sin tax. Right or wrong it does exist. Why not do the same thing on Marijuana. Make it legal and then tax it heavily. Anyone selling Marijuana illegally will be fined heavily. This will bring in more revenue and will lessen the load on our prisons.

I am not condoning smoking pot anymore than I am condoning smoking tabacco. Both are harmful to ones health. I just do not think Marijuana is any more dangerous than Tabacco.

It is said Marijuana impairs driving. Well have similar laws for driving under the influence of Marijauna as there is for driving under the influence of Alcohol then. That will solve that issue.

[Dr. Shane]

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This is not working is it?

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It is not working because it is not in place. What I and others are proposing is not being done. Prison time is too easy. In fact, the families of prisoners seem to be punished more than the prisoners are.

[Jeannieb43]

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CyberGuy said:

Why not do the same thing on Marijuana. Make it legal and then tax it heavily. Anyone selling Marijuana illegally will be fined heavily. This will bring in more revenue and will lessen the load on our prisons.

I am not condoning smoking pot anymore than I am condoning smoking tabacco. Both are harmful to ones health. I just do not think Marijuana is any more dangerous than Tabacco.

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My DH (who had many parolees as his patients) advocated decriminalizing marijuana and other street drugs. Not legalizing them -- the intoxication they caused would still be illegal -- but only taking away the criminal penalties. If street drugs could be purchased at any drug store, the same way alcohol is now purchased, it would reduce the retail price of the stuff, thus destroy the black market, and do away with the street crimes such as robbery which are committed by drug addicts in order to get money to support their habit.

It would also end the overcrowding in the prisons.

Of course, it would put a lot of prison wardens out of work. But in the long run it would be better for the community. There should be no incarceration for "non-violent drug offenses."

[Gerr]

I have no problem legalizing every known drug that people want to consume if: 1) consumed in their homes 2) if a crime is committed and results in an innocent person's life being lost as a result of someone's use of these mind-altering drugs, that they pay with their own life.

Gerry

[Ron Lambert]

Jeannieb43 and Gerry, the argument you gave is a common one given by advocates of legalizing marijuana. At first glance, it seems persuasive. But look a little deeper.

(1) If "recreational" use of such drugs is legalized, it will ammount to society officially giving its consent to "recreational" use of these drugs. God judges societies as well as individuals. If our society declares something that is evil to be good, then shall we not face an accounting over it with God?--especially since in a democracy, we have a part in government.

(2) If such drugs are made readily available, then multitudes more people--especially children and youth--will be exposed to them and become addicted, who otherwise might never have been tempted.

[Gerr]

Unless we become a police state, we can't control what people do in their homes. Right now, drug control is directed mostly on the growers & the suppliers/middle-men and little penalty for the consumer. If we enforce item #2 in my post, I don't believe that more people will pick up the drug habit. The problem is that if drugs are legalized and then the stiff/severe penalties for drug-related crimes or damages caused by being under the influence are not enforced, that they would be argued as being ineffective just like the death penalty today. As I argued earlier, the death penalty is not a deterent to crime at the present time because it is made as painless as possible & done in the dead of night.

Gerry

[Neil D]

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As I argued earlier, the death penalty is not a deterent to crime at the present time because it is made as painless as possible & done in the dead of night.

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I have a hard time believing that the death penalty is a deterant to any crime, painless or not. Especially since many murders are done in the moment, with much passion, who is thinking logically.. And besides, if a death penalty is impossed upon another, then dispatching people should be as painless as possible otherwise you have a cruel society.....

[Gerr]

Would you steal if you know that if you are caught your hand would be cut off? How many children, nay, how many adults have you seen that would deliberately touch a hot stove after they have been burned once?

Gerry

[Neil D]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

Would you steal if you know that if you are caught your hand would be cut off? How many children, nay, how many adults have you seen that would deliberately touch a hot stove after they have been burned once?

Gerry

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Depends upon my need.....If I need it really bad, as if it were life or death mater, I might steal...But then again, I might not and just ask the person if I could have the thing that was desireable...

And the cost of stealing food or money for food is different if it is diamonds for vanity...

Of course, in my mind, if a person is reduced to stealing for food, then it is society's problem and not the individual's problem...especially when he is actively attempting to get a job and can not get one for a variety of reasons, ie, public doesn't trust you because you have a prison record, or you are a dwarf/midget and the public will not accomidate you for a job, you are a woman and the job is concidered a 'man's job' ie jackhammer ....

If you put your mind to it, I am sure that you can come up with several situations that the public will not allow certain people to work at various jobs...

[Gerr]

Suppose we make exception for stealing food when hungry?

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

Most people caught shoplifting actually have enough money on them to pay for what they are trying to steal.

[Dr. Shane]

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I have a hard time believing that the death penalty is a deterant to any crime, painless or not.

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I agree that the death penaty is not a deterant becuase the people that are put to death are not in their right mind when they commit their crimes. If the death penalty was administered like it was 100 years ago that would not be the case.

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dispatching people should be as painless as possible otherwise you have a cruel society.....

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That may be so, but if it is, our founding fathers belonged to just such a society. Our founding fathers considered being drawn and quartered cruel and unusual punishment. In England that and beheading was practiced. Hanging a man to death was not considered cruel or unusual.

[Neil D]

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Hanging a man to death was not considered cruel or unusual.

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That is because it was a quick public death.

The noose was coiled around itself 13 times [an unlucky number] and the knot was placed such that when the rope straightened out, the knot slapped the head so violently that the neck was snapped...Some were able to withstand the knot [especially if placed wrong], but they slowly strangled to death...

[Dr. Shane]

So public hanging is not cruel and unusual punishment?

[Neil D]

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Shane said:

So public hanging is not cruel and unusual punishment?

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Those were your words, not mine. I merely described the hanging process, according to my Grandfather, who had seen one or two in his life time. I left the judgement of whether that seemed cruel and unsual in your hands.. Personally, I think that using an IV and 3 syringes given in the proper order will sedate a person, stop his heart, and stop his respiration would be as painless and quick as possible.

California is skimping on the lethal injections by using only one drug....Must be because of all that debt they have to Ken Lay. [said with a wry tongue in cheek]