Being in Christ Jesus

[David_McQueen]

"if any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new creature"

How do we practically apply this or understand this?

[archierieus]

The gospel of Jesus Christ changes a person. The process begins at the 'new birth,' when a person is 'born of water and of the Holy Spirit.' A new life begins. Jesus used the illustration of yeast in a lump of dough, to illustrate the process. As the yeast continues to work, it leavens the entire lump of dough. So, the gospel spreads and permeates our minds and hearts. The power of the gospel to change the life is illustrated by Paul's statement in 2 Cor. that God "is able to bring every thought into captivity" to Jesus Christ. We have the opportunity to be in such close communion with Jesus that not even by a thought will we sin. Yes, we will be tempted, we may struggle with those temptations, but we will not give in to them, not even by a wrong thought.

Dave

[Nicodema]

[sarcasm]

Oh, THAT's easy, David. It's the Big Test to see if God really HAS forgiven and accepted you or not. You see, if you experience being a new creature, you pass the test and God has accepted you and you are now free to be an absolute JERK to anyone you please with TOTAL IMPUNITY. But if you look inside yourself and see the same old sinful rot that drove you to the cross in the first place? That means God has absolutely REJECTED you, and you DESERVE whatever those perfect people DUMP on you. Their lies about you are THE TRUTH whether you like it or not, even whether it is true or not. That's how it works, apparently, according to All Those Who Are Going To Heaven and Have The Right To Judge The Rest Of Us -- whether here, near, or afar.

[/sarcasm]

[Robert]

As the last (or second) Adam Christ gathered unto Himself the whole Adamic race and on the cross died the wages of sin (the second or eternal death) which is what we all deserved in the first Adam. And by His death on the cross, Christ in the resurrection rose up from the dead as the second man, the head of a new humanity who are altogether found in Him. Hence, “if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2 Corinthians 5:17). It was at the cross that old things, or the old humanity, passed away; and it is in the resurrection that “all things are become new.” [Jack Sequeira]

[Ron Lambert]

It is true, Robert, that all the human race was forgiven in Christ, because Christ took all humanity with Him to the Cross, where all the sins of humanity were punished. But you do not seem to pay enough regard to the fact that God respects our freedom of choice, and will not force salvation upon us, nor take us into heaven if we are unwilling to live the kind of life that is required for citizenship there. While Christ took all humanity into Himself, and bore all the sins of humanity on the Cross, we still must own up to that, confess that, accept that, and submit to the Spirit Who works in us to purify our hearts and develop our faith until we reach the point where we have become whole-hearted in our faith in Christ, and whole-hearted in our dismay and rejection of the sins in us that necessitated the death of Christ on our behalf.

It is the wonderfully good news of the gospel that we can go to all the people of the world, and declare to them the Word of God that they have already been provided with forgiveness and salvation; all they have to do is claim it. But that last is not incidental. Each person must claim forgiveness and salvation. We must agree that Christ is the New Head of our race. We must agree that we have sinned, and because of our sins Christ had to die. We must agree that Christ is entitled to be not only our Savior, but also the Lord of our lives.

Any human who is lost, will really be lost because he refused his salvation, that Christ has already provided to everyone.

Now, how do we show that we refuse the grace of God? By continuing to be in rebellion against His rule. We refuse the reconciliation with God that Christ has provided for us, if we refused to be reconciled ourselves.

Faith is not mere profession. Faith is a submission of our entire hearts and lives to Christ, knowing that depending on Him is our only hope. And how do we show that submission? By abandoning our rebellion against God, and by seeking that ever-deepening conversion that will bring us more fully into obedience to His will.

Anyone who plans to be saved outside of acknowledging the Law of God as something he must abide by, is by that also planning to be saved outside of Christ. Anyone who denies that Christ is Lord, with the right to command our obedience, is also denying Christ as their Savior.

[Clio]

That statement:

"in Christ Jesus" is directly related to the Blood Covenant executed and sealed forever at the cross. But not in the way any of you theologians have identified.

It is so much more, and so not an arbiter of acceptance or rejection.

When a fact is, acceptance and rejection don't matter to the fact. The RESULTS to the observer of the fact matter to the person trying to make sense of the fact do matter. But without the whole picture, the observer is trying to understand what the puzzle picture is from a single piece of the puzzle.

Again... if you truly want to understand this, get the book The Blood Covenant by H. Clay Trumball. Read it with your Bible handy, and check EACH AND EVERY ONE of his scripture references.

This whole discussion is moot until every participant has done so... because Western thought processes simply can't grasp what Paul is actually saying until we understand the blood covenant.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi David,

Being in Christ Jesus

To understand this let’s look at Paul's complete sentence:

2Co 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new.”

I see four points here that are important and need examination.

1. In Christ (what does that mean?)

2. New Creature (when does that happen?)

3. Old things are passed away (What old things?)

4. All things are become new (All is a lot and what is all?)

Point # 1 - In Christ: Paul uses this term to define two groups of people; the world and believers. In this context Paul is referring to those who are; believing, living by the Spirit, and witnessing Christians.

Point # 2 - New Creature: The Greek lists five words for “creature” and they are; formation, building, creature, creation and ordinance. They all refer to a change in human structure and since our bodies are not changed till Christ comes this has to be referring to a spiritual change in our characters. Also, Paul is not saying that this New Creature is the new glorified body. The context is in the present on going tense.

Point # 3 - Old things are passed away: This is referring to the change in the person and how he views things now as a true Christian. Before we were in Christ we had a different world view. We also had a different God view; meaning we saw Him according to the way we thought as unconverted people. Verse 16 reveals this thought: 2Co 5:16 So then, from now on we do not think of anyone from a human point of view. Even if we did think of Christ from a human point of view, we don't think of him that way any more. ISV

Point # 4 - All things are become new: This corresponds to point 3. If we now see with new spiritual eyes then we won’t condemn but we’ll have mercy. We will have a different understanding of the Bible and spiritual things. We won’t live like we used to or think like we used to. We have as it were; a new life source and that would be the power in the blood and the mind of Christ. 1Cor. 2:16 “For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”

Having understood this, we must be the ones individually to practically apply it. Phi 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

In other words we ought to wrestle with God till we are satisfied that He has blessed us. Not that He needs to be persuaded but we need to know it even though it is written in the Bible; we must all experience God individually by our own effort and not someone else’s.

Norman