Right or Left?

[Gerr]

We are coming to another election.  I believe that many if not most Adventists think of their votes in terms of their eschatological consequences.  Which platform will more likely bring about the feared scenario of lost religious freedom?  Conservatives (right) or the Liberals (left)?

[Robert]

I use to think the conservatives, but now I think it will be the liberals.

[debbym]

anyone  could be used... right or left... 

 

[Gerr]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

I use to think the conservatives, but now I think it will be the liberals.

debbym:

anyone  could be used... right or left

 

Me:  Who would be more likely to pass a Sunday Law, the 5 Catholics (conservative) or the 3 Jews (liberals) on the current Supreme Court?  For the first time in our history, there is no Protestant on the Court.

[Robert]

Keep in mind that EGW states that it will be the Protestants that seek out Roman.  I believe it will be the liberal Protestantism because they are the ones watering down the Bible. 

[Gerr]

But now there are NO Protestants on the Court.

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Gerry Cabalo said:

But now there are NO Protestants on the Court.

Yes, true....

Here's how it plays out according to Mrs. White:

"The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. .." [ Ref: http://www.whiteestate.org/devotional/ofc/07_01.asp ]

[Robert]

I'm going to give you some videos on liberalism.  

First, homosexuality. What do liberal Christians believe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF9uo_P0nNI

 

[Bravus]

I think those are pretty far off topic, Robert.

The question, as I understand it, is about which platform is more dangerous to religious freedom.

If the threat is perceived as coming from a theocracy (or what is purported to be one: not rule by God, but rule by those with a particular faith), then I think the threat is from the Right.

For example, the institution of required Sunday worship and the prohibition of Saturday worship is an example of this form of loss of religious freedom.

If the threat is perceived as coming when secularism that esteems all religions (and none) as private matters flips over into the suppression of religion per se, then I think the threat is from the Left.

For example, the notion that it is indoctrination to teach children about religion at Sabbath School and they should not be so taught until they make a decision as adults is an example of this form of less of religious freedom.

Both have their dangers, but the dangers are different.

[Robert]

39 minutes ago, David Geelan said:

I think those are pretty far off topic, Robert.

The question, as I understand it, is about which platform is more dangerous to religious freedom.

The acceptance of monogamous, homosexual relationships within the Christian Church is not biblical; neither is the teachings of theistic-evolution.  These, among many others liberal teachings, constitute a watering down of what the Bible explicitly teaches. 

 

 

 

[Robert]

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren." GC 608.2

Where are differences settled?  In the courts!  What is popular in the secular world?  I've already named two things:  

• The acceptance of the gay lifestyle and
• the teaching of evolution

These things have made there way into the Christian church.  

 

[Robert]

3 minutes ago, Robert said:

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren." GC 608.2

BTW, here's more:

"When Sabbathkeepers are brought before the courts to answer for their faith, these apostates (i.e., those who have abandon the faith)  are the most efficient agents of Satan to misrepresent and accuse them, and by false reports and insinuations to stir up the rulers against them....At that time the gold will be separated from the dross. . . . Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness. Those who have assumed the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will then appear in the shame of their own nakedness." 

I firmly believe that it will the liberals that bring about persecution and the restriction of religious liberty. 

 

[Bravus]

I didn't even say you were wrong on those topics (though I believe you are).

I said they are off topic for this thread - and they are.

You're riding your hobby horses on a road made for cars.

[Robert]

17 minutes ago, David Geelan said:

I said they are off topic for this thread - and they are.

Gerry asked: Which platform will more likely bring about the feared scenario of lost religious freedom?  Conservatives (right) or the Liberals (left)?

My answer is "the left".  Then I gave some examples why I believe this.  That's not off topic.....

[Robert]

19 minutes ago, David Geelan said:

I didn't even say you were wrong on those topics (though I believe you are).

Then you need to prove it from the Bible.....

• The Bible doesn't teach that a Christian is just in living the gay lifestyle.  
• The Bible doesn't teach that God created us through evolution.

Both are liberal ideas....

And there are many other liberal ideas.

Conservatives tend to be a bit more legalistic than liberals, but ultimately both ditches are wrong. 

 

[CoAspen]

Quote

You're riding your hobby horses on a road made for cars.

[CoAspen]

Robert, 

Your constant pounding of people over the head with the Bible or EGW, is, how should I put it.......not Biblical either and you should know that!

[LifeHiscost]

10 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

Robert, 

Your constant pounding of people over the head with the Bible or EGW, is, how should I put it.......not Biblical either and you should know that!

Since the Word of the Creator is not adequate to answer your interests, where would you like to develop your theories for better evidence? Just asking.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!       

[Gerr]

The Left is less likely to be an immediate threat to religious freedom since they are actually for expanding freedoms (except perhaps when it comes to guns & Christian practices that are deemed discriminatory).  But I can see where both would/could be instrumental in the eventual restriction of religious freedom as debbym opined.. The mounting crimes, corrupt politicians, and the perceived "anything goes" agenda of the Left will arouse people to demand some kind of moral revival which the Right will gladly support.  The proposed Sunday Law was originally rejected by the EU, but now its proponents are pushing it as pro-family, good for the environment, and one day of rest will be beneficial for individual health & spirituality as well.  These are or can be common grounds for both Right and Left.  

[Robert]

10 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Robert, 

Your constant pounding of people over the head with the Bible or EGW, is, how should I put it.......not Biblical either and you should know that!

Maybe I should say smooth, flattering things?  Maybe popularity with "the world" should be my agenda? Then, perhaps, you might like what I write?

[Robert]

55 minutes ago, Gerry Cabalo said:

The Left is less likely to be an immediate threat to religious freedom since they are actually for expanding freedoms (except perhaps when it comes to guns & Christian practices that are deemed discriminatory).  But I can see where both would/could be instrumental in the eventual restriction of religious freedom as debbym opined.. The mounting crimes, corrupt politicians, and the perceived "anything goes" agenda of the Left will arouse people to demand some kind of moral revival which the Right will gladly support.  The proposed Sunday Law was originally rejected by the EU, but now its proponents are pushing it as pro-family, good for the environment, and one day of rest will be beneficial for individual health & spirituality as well.  These are or can be common grounds for both Right and Left.  

I agree, but still I think it will come about because of the liberals' agenda.....At least they will be the catalyst.

[Jeannieb43]

IMHO, the last events will be rapid ones, and the time(s) of our being without religious freedom will probably be (thankfully) short-lived.   At least I hope and pray this is so.

Nevertheless, our personal closeness with Christ in a true relationship of faith and trust, is ultimately what will carry us through.  He is our only hope and salvation. 

[debbym]

I believe the left and the right could well unite...  against Christ.  Neither are holy, neither can resist the designs and schemes of the enemy.  Only by being controlled by the Holy Spirit can their be a resistance to evil in all it's myriad of forms.

The Sanhedrin and the Pharisees were in constant conflict till they united against Christ.

[LifeHiscost]

3 hours ago, debbym said:

I believe the left and the right could well unite...  against Christ.  Neither are holy, neither can resist the designs and schemes of the enemy.  Only by being controlled by the Holy Spirit can their be a resistance to evil in all it's myriad of forms.

The Sanhedrin and the Pharisees were in constant conflict till they united against Christ.

   God has revealed what is to take place in the

last days, that His people may be prepared to stand against the tempest of opposition and wrath. Those who have been warned of the events before them are not to sit in calm expectation of the coming storm, comforting themselves that the Lord will shelter His faithful ones in the day of trouble. We are to be as men waiting for their Lord, not in idle expectancy, but in earnest work, with unwavering faith. It is no time now to allow our minds to be engrossed with things of minor importance. While men are sleeping, Satan is actively arranging matters so that the Lord’s people may not have mercy or justice. The Sunday movement is now making its way in darkness. The leaders are concealing the true issue, and many who unite in the movement do not themselves see whither the undercurrent is tending. Its professions are mild and apparently Christian, but when it shall speak it will reveal the spirit of the dragon. It is our duty to do all in our power to avert the threatened danger. We should endeavor to disarm prejudice by placing ourselves in a proper light before the people. We should bring before them the real question at issue, thus interposing the most effectual protest against measures to restrict liberty of conscience. We should search the Scriptures and be able to give the reason for our faith. Says the prophet: “The wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” {5T 452.1}   

At the SDA campmeeting for 2016, hosting Elder Jose Rojas in Idaho, exceptional meetings can be found that defy any explanation other than the presence of the Holy Spirit. You can find access to them from www.sealingtime.com. Some meetings have already been archived but his most recent I only saw available on DVD for sale.

Jesus is coming! God is Love!~Jesus saves!

[joeb]

Both Republicans and Democrats are working to destroy the Constitution.  There are so many Republicans joining hands with the socialists on the left and demanding greater spending, more government control, etc... that it is basically impossible to tell them apart when they take their political buttons off.  Ellen White said that when the US stops with the pretence of following the Constitution that the end of probation isn't far away.  We are very close to that now.  All that is left of the Constitution is a pretence and the entire political left and the RINO's are rejoicing.  Corruption so bad that even those who support those politicians admit that it has been taken to an "art form" is at the very center of all of this.  

Our founding fathers understood that an immoral nation could never retain its liberties, which is why they made God a central part of it.  This myth that they were secularists is one of the biggest lies around.  One of the greatest political thinkers of all time, a man who experienced the French revolution, agreed with them.  He said, There is no liberty without morality, and no morality without faith.  He was right on the money, and that is one of the biggest reasons the political lleft, the socialists, have been working to destroy Christian morality and faith in God.  They are succeeding beyond their wildest dreams.