Madonna Keeps the Sabbath?

[Gail]

I'm not sure if this is news or not, but I couldn't find the "People Magazine" section- Gail

Madonna eyes Israel house to await Messiah

Mar 03 8:08 AM US/Eastern

US pop diva Madonna wants to buy a house in the Israeli town of Rosh Pina, where the ancient Jewish Kabbalah tradition expects the Messiah to appear at the end of the world.

Yediot Aharonot said the owner of a 100-year-old, ramshackle five-bedroom villa overlooking the Sea of the Galilee had been recently contacted several times by representatives of the superstar with a view to selling his property.

According to the same source, Madonna wants to renovate the building into a centre of study of mystical Jewish texts pored over by Kabbalah followers.

The self-proclaimed Material Girl, a keen aficionado of the ancient Jewish mystical tradition, last visited Israel in September 2004.

She turned to Kabbalah in 1997 through the Los Angeles-based Kabbalah Centre which proclaims to offer a path to spiritual enlightenment through an eclectic mix of Orthodox Jewish tradition, visualisation and positive thinking.

Two years ago, she took the Hebrew name Esther and reportedly observes the Jewish sabbath, although she has not converted to Judaism.

One of her recent dance tracks is called "Isaac", the name of famous Kabbalah Rabbi Isaac Louria who lived and worked in the now northern Israeli town of Safed during the 16th century.

[Ron Lambert]

It is good if she keeps the fourth commandment. But does she keep the seventh commandment?

[Nicodema]

Hey everybody, why don't we make a covenant together to keep her in prayer? If we can get at LEAST 7 people on this board (better if more) each one to take one day of the week to remember her in prayer that she will be led to Christ through her Kabbalistic studies (it CAN happen y'know), we will have her under prayer cover -- and who knows what the Lord might do?? Anyone else wanna join me?

[GreatLakesGramma]

I'll pray on Thursdays.

[Nicodema]

Hey Christine I started a thread in the prayer forum for this! Wanna go post it there? Thanks!

Nico

[GreatLakesGramma]

Madonna is not alone in this. When I met my son's roommate for the first time, he told me that he was looking into Kabbaleh, and that a lot of celebrities are following it. It seems to be the current religious fad among the entertainment set.

And did you know that a large share of entertainers are of Jewish ethnicity? I'm not sure where I read that, maybe it was Doug Batchelor's autobiography. His mother is Jewish and worked in the entertainment industry.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "But does she keep the seventh commandment?"

I am not certain that I have to know.

However, Ron, if you have been following her, you know that motherhood has changed her, and she is living a different life-style than she once did. Whether or now she has reached the perfection that we live, I do not know. But, it is very clear that motherhood has changed her. It is very unlikely, in my opinion, thas she would produce today the book titled SEX that she once produced.

[Dr. Shane]

I have heard her say that she hopes her daughters don't follow the same path she did. However her concerts are still quite explicit and she has yet to remounce her past.

We certainly cannot judge her but she is far from being a role model. I agree that she needs a lot of prayers.

[Dr. Shane]

Dear Madonna,

I know that the chances of your reading this letter are extremely slim, but I feel compelled to write anyway. I know it might sound a bit crazy, but I care for your soul and I think that your devotion to Kabbalah is dangerous. I do not wish to be critical or hateful or point fingers, nor am I a cold fundamentalist who demands that he be right and everyone else a liar. My points are simpler than that. I just believe that the teachings of Kabbalah are not true.

In my research of this mystical religious offshoot of Judaism, I have found that the authority for whether something is true or not is really unknowable. True knowledge of Ein Sof is behind the text of the Torah, not in it (or on the surface of it). That means that a person must be enlightened, transcending rational thought, in order to come to grasp Ein Sof. The major problem with this belief is that anybody can come up with whatever they want, so long as they believe that they are enlightened. Thus, there is no standard of truth within the system itself. There seems to be a turning off of rational faculties in general in order to come to the higher, spiritual knowledge.

But does it not seem clear that humans have rational faculties that are meant to guide us? Madonna, in order to write children’s books or perform music on a stage with electrical equipment or to be successful in business, you must use your reasoning skills. When placed beside the esoteric teachings of Kabbalah, orthodox Christianity stands in stark contrast. Instead of looking for hidden or coded meanings within the text, orthodoxy desires to find the historical, grammatical meaning of the text. This assumes that God has communicated in a way that can be understood by everyone, not just a few spiritual elites and that the things God says are true to reality.

Personally, I decided to be a Christian because of the words of Jesus. He leads me to rationally trust in Him. He tells me that I am a sinner in a legal sense, but that God has written up a contract (called the New Covenant – see Jeremiah 31) that can pardon me of my crimes. He tells me these things are true to fact, not obtained by mystical religious practices. True salvation is summarized in Hebrews 13:20-21.

“Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.”

The Orthodox Christian need not look beyond Christ and His sacrifice of Himself on the cross for answers to the problems of life. He is working to make us complete by washing away our sin. Kabbalah is dangerous for the soul because it offers no true help for the immense guilt that plagues our hearts as humanity. It might offer a temporary numbness (most religions do), but it cannot deal with factual, legal guilt that we possess since Adam and Eve fell in the Garden of Eden. We are not on a journey back to that Garden, Madonna. Remember they were naked there. After the Fall they were clothed with animal skins, which we still wear today. But according to the New Testament, God’s people will one day wear white robes, a symbol of their purity. That is a different and better place than Eden and only those in Christ can enter in.

And so I’ll close. I just encourage you to contemplate whether Kabbalah is offering you truth. I also encourage you to consider that a relationship with Christ, the Messiah, might be the most spiritually invigorating decision you could make.

With Deep Respect,

Jason Dollar

[Pockey]

Pray for Madonna? Am I the only that thinks this is silly?

[Clio]

Why would it be silly Sid? She is just as much a child of the Most High as any of us. And one definately in need of prayer.

Clio

[Nicodema]

Who is "Jason Dollar"?????

Quote:

---

Shane said:

In my research of this mystical religious offshoot of Judaism, I have found that the authority for whether something is true or not is really unknowable. True knowledge of Ein Sof is behind the text of the Torah, not in it (or on the surface of it). That means that a person must be enlightened, transcending rational thought, in order to come to grasp Ein Sof. The major problem with this belief is that anybody can come up with whatever they want, so long as they believe that they are enlightened.

---

This argument could just as readily be applied to ourselves. True knowledge of Jesus Christ is BEHIND the text of Scripture, not IN it or on the surface of it. Jesus Himself referred to this when He stated "ye search the Scriptures because IN THEM ye THINK ye have eternal life; and these are they which testify of ME ... yet ye will not come to ME that ye may HAVE life."

"True knowledge of Ain Soph" in relation to the Torah, therefore, parallels "knowing Christ, the Living Word personally" (not just the words on the page) in relation to the New Testament accounts or scripture as a whole. The fact is, NOT everybody can claim to know Christ and "just come up with whatever they want," because those who knew Him first (the disciples and apostles) have already determined together what that means and what it looks like, and anyone making such a claim would have to pass muster on those accounts, or pass the "fruit inspection" test by fellow Christians. Well likewise with the Kabbalah, NOT everyone can "just come up with whatever they want" because the veracity of any claim to "true knowledge of Ain Soph" is subject to the judgment of those who got there first and are already in agreement as to what that means and how it is indicated in a person's life, knowledge and/or experience.

So "Jason Dollar's" argument here is barren.

Quote:

---

Thus, there is no standard of truth within the system itself. There seems to be a turning off of rational faculties in general in order to come to the higher, spiritual knowledge.

---

These assertions are specious. Mr. Dollar would have done better drawing the obvious parallels of similarity in the quest for truth than manufacturing artificial epistemological disputes. The latter statement in particular belies the paucity of his alleged "research."

I'm sure his heart was in the right place ... but he didn't think this through very carefully.

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Clio said:

Why would it be silly Sid? She is just as much a child of the Most High as any of us. And one definately in need of prayer.

---

Tom Cruise ... you're next!!!

[Pockey]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Clio said:

Why would it be silly Sid? She is just as much a child of the Most High as any of us. And one definately in need of prayer.

Clio

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Why is she definitely in need of prayer? Is she a bad person? Anyways, it just seems more silly than all mighty hullabaloo because there are a lot of people that need our prayers even just here -- take a look at the prayer thread. Have you prayed for every prayer request here among are midst? Our friends, family, co-workers, clients, students, teachers, patients, contacts, enemies need our prayers. People we interact with. Not some mega entertainment icon. What are you trying to accomplish? That she'll keep the Sabbath? C'mon. Don't throw your pearls away. There's people within our own circle that don't keep the Sabbath who need our prayers. It just seems like some magical thinking, like "oh yay let's pray for Madonna, cause you know she's famous and all, so if she goes to church on the 7th day, then that'll be a great influence on everyone else". Yeah right. It would probably bring more ridicule to the most Holy day. And yes I understand she's a child of God and God died for her. But let's be real here. Time is too short.

:2cents:

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "Why is she definitely in need of prayer?"

1) She is in need of our prayers if the Holy Spirit is leading us to pray for her.

2) She is in need of our prayers because she is showing evidence that she is searching, and is changing her life-style, even though it has not yet reached our standards.

Re: "Don't throw your pearls away."

That reflects an interesting view of God.

[olger]

"However, Ron, if you have been following her.."

Let us hope that Ron hasn't been following her.

As to Madonna, is there hope for her? Yes, there is hope for every person, if they acknowledge & confess their sins, and forsake them.

Until that point, the life of a person will contain three consequences: Guilt, shame, and fear. These will damage our ability to respond to truth. The way of freedom is the way of repentance.

blessings,

olger

[Pockey]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Gregory Matthews said:

1) She is in need of our prayers if the Holy Spirit is leading us to pray for her.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Yeah well, the Holy Spirit is telling me that it's silly.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Re: "Don't throw your pearls away."

That reflects an interesting view of God.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Why? Because I won't pray for an entity that's the claymation of publicists, marketers, corporations, and producers? We don't even know who the person is behind the title Madonna. And I'm not going to waste my time trying to judge her as a person. I got other people in my life now that I need to pray for, even here there are many. But whatever's clever. Let's pray for Sailor Moon too. I think her outfits are too suggestive.

[Stan]

hmmmm so she is a sabbathkeeping vegetarian...

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Sid said:

Yeah well, the Holy Spirit is telling me that it's silly.

Why? Because I won't pray for an entity that's the claymation of publicists, marketers, corporations, and producers? We don't even know who the person is behind the title Madonna. And I'm not going to waste my time trying to judge her as a person. I got other people in my life now that I need to pray for, even here there are many. But whatever's clever. Let's pray for Sailor Moon too. I think her outfits are too suggestive.

---

Sid,

If you don't feel led to pray for her then don't -- simple as that. I don't feel the need to judge YOU or pick apart YOUR motives or put YOU down for choosing not to. I am a bit puzzled why it seems you want to do that to me, but I refuse to get sucked into playing the game of trying to defend myself or my reasons. If it is THAT important to you to think the idea trivial and stupid, or to think the only reason anyone would suggest it would be to appear "clever" or because "a celebrity keeping the seventh day" would "get the world's attention", then by all means, feel free to think those things. It certainly won't change a single grain of sand where the truth about my heart, my motives, my thoughts, or my reasons are concerned, but if it makes YOU feel better -- hey, go for it. Here's the left cheek too while you're at it.

[Pockey]

Nah, no put down Nico, I just think it's silly.

*shrug*

[Nicodema]

I understand. I had an acquaintance once many years ago who wholeheartedly believed the Holy Spirit was leading her to make personal contact with Jackson Browne and lead him to salvation. She would write lengthy letters to this singer/songwriter analyzing and dissecting his lyrics, events in his life, etc. and "prophesying" to him and relating it all to the gospel.

I thought she was nuts, but hey, what do I know? God [can] work in mysterious ways.

[Gregory Matthews]

You have every right to make that decision for yourself personally.

You seem to have gone beyond that to what others should do.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Praying for Madonna should not keep anyone from praying for everyone else they should. And there are people on my prayer list I have committed to pray for every day for the rest of my life, who seem even more unlikely to ever turn to the Lord than she does.

[Pockey]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Nicodema said:I thought she was nuts, but hey, what do I know? God [can] work in mysterious ways. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hmm, true that!

[Parade Orange]

I am a giant fan of hers! Followed her since the 'Holiday' and 'Burnin up' days when I was drawn to her queerly.

She is a superstar and driven and very talented. I love her and will always. I prayed for her for years! God is working in her life. Cant wait when she finds Jesus.