Genesis and the serpent..

[Stan]

In reading through Genesis again, it became clear to me that the serpent lies still continue

The first one, is that we are immortal, the second one is that you do not have to obey God's law.

I am sure the serpent could have chosen other lies, seems this is important to him.

[archierieus]

I would guess that it is one which the ol' snake repeats because it is a fatal lie--and one which is very easy to buy into.

Dave

[Nicodema]

[tagging on]

Examining the second lie more closely, I do not find it to consist of "you need not obey." What I find it to consist of is "disobedience leads to enlightenment and godlike independence." I also find the first lie to contain not just the pretense of immortality apart from God but a very direct attack upon where death comes from in the first place. Satan says death is arbitrary and dealt by God to punish you for disobedience. God says death is the result of sin, period. "The wages of sin is death." It is SIN, not GOD, that KILLS. The biggest lie Satan has going for him is the one that says God kills, because it's the one lie he has successfully sold most of God's own followers, who as a result, have had to somehow reconcile within themselves the dichotomy of love and killing, two things which cannot contain one another -- and we can see where this has gotten them by the convoluted results of this attempted reconciliation of opposites. Speaking of which, isn't the notion of the "reconciliation of opposites" one of those lie-based things that tries to make room for both bitter and sweet, both good and evil, to exist and have place with one another? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" -- yeah, I thought so!

[archierieus]

Quote:

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Nicodema said:

It is SIN, not GOD, that KILLS. The biggest lie Satan has going for him is the one that says God kills, because it's the one lie he has successfully sold most of God's own followers, who as a result, have had to somehow reconcile within themselves the dichotomy of love and killing, two things which cannot contain one another

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There was a gentleman in Washington state some years ago, Klute was the name, Mike Klute, who built quite a ministry around the notion that God does not kill. Actually, I understand the Bible to teach that God DOES destroy those who persist in sin. God is the one who destroys them with fire, in the end. However, I question whether that whole issue is on point as to this thread.

Dave

[Nicodema]

I think the ISSUE is "on point" because I think a correct understanding of things provides the "truth that shall set you free" to effectively counteract the lie of Satan. In fact, I don't think this particular lie of Satan can be adequately counteracted with the more popular & more broadly accepted -- but less internally-self-consistent -- picture of God many of us hold to.

I understand the Bible to teach that it is sin which brings destruction, not God. I am not, at this time, either prepared or willing to enter into a debate on this topic. A debate over it would indeed NOT be "on point" for this thread. Perhaps we can leave it there, and agree not to pursue one?

[archierieus]

Very well, perhaps it would be good to start a separate thread. I shall do so.

[Nicodema]

Quote:

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Nicodema said:

I understand the Bible to teach that it is sin which brings destruction, not God.

I am not, at this time, either prepared

or willing

to enter into a debate on this topic.

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To clarify: that meant either here or elsewhere.

[archierieus]

I see. Very well, I do understand if you do not wish to participate. I have started a new thread devoted to the question, and perhaps others will choose to participate. Since the issue has now been presented on this forum, via your post, I think it needs to be addressed. But, that can be accomplished on the other thread.