New Light? Could Rev 12:1-2 be a time prophecy?

[Joe_in_RP]

In the spirit of this:"The church has changed views on prophecy, and if we ever cease to review in light of more information we are in trouble."

I have made a video about David Mead's work on Revelation 12.  Its in the video forum.

The rest of David's work is seriously flawed in my opinion. But he seems to nail 12:1-2.  I have contributed verses 3-4. 

I am sure many will disagree, but I am looking for bible disagreements.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

7 minutes ago, Joe_in_RP said:

Its in the video forum.

could you provide the link, please?

[Joe_in_RP]

 

[Joe_in_RP]

Almost a month and no comments?

The science shows there is a Brown Dwarf star in our solar system.  So is this predicted in REV 12?

[Dave Watchman]

On 1/29/2017 at 8:41 AM, Joe_in_RP said:

Almost a month and no comments?

I think that you've made a nice video, good job!

Your voice is pleasant to listen to, it's very calming.

Do you know Samie? I think that he lives in the Philippines too.

On 1/29/2017 at 8:41 AM, Joe_in_RP said:

The science shows there is a Brown Dwarf star in our solar system. 

That's amazing. If it's close enough to pass us by this fall, I can't believe that NASA is still unable to see it by now with all their telescopes and satellites. But I agree with what you said in the video about "you can't get around this "appeared in heaven" stuff".

Are you worried about it?

I don't know about the brown dwarf star, planet X or Nibiru stories. They might be true or they might not be true. I just can't tell. The videos that I posted in the star signs thread were made by a smart guy from Africa, Jaco Prinsloo. I think he mentions that all the players from Revelation 12 have celestial representation with the exception of the great red dragon which might indicate that it's "representation" will be late to the show.

 

On 1/29/2017 at 8:41 AM, Joe_in_RP said:

So is this predicted in REV 12?

 

I don't know. We're so close now to finding out. It does seem as though Revelation separates or distinguishes between the two signs. Is that an indication we will see the red dragon's celestial representation after the first signs fulfillment?

 

1And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars..

 

3And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.

 

What you said in the video about 9/23 in the USA and 9/24 in Asia. I also notice this situation with a peculiar solar eclipse. The first location on the planet to see it begins at a certain time on January 5, the last location to witness the culmination ends on January 6 at another time. No man can know the day or the hour.

 

You also said something about the event taking place up to two months AFTER the first signs fulfillment. That's what I think it's going to be. Almost two months after the signs fulfillment there's something else that will happen, another celestial event, which has a date assigned to it which I strongly believe is the main indicator sign.

 

I think that it's a fair bit too spooky to talk about and that something IS going on. I think this thing is the real deal, and we are here. I was going to come back latter and try to explain what it is that I've found that convinces me. It's really just as simple as measuring the days when Jupiter enters and then exits the body of Virgo and then counting until there's a solar and lunar eclipse which has a connection with the tetrads. Maybe I'll boost up the star sign thread latter in the year.

 

Or maybe I won't. It's a gamble risking that we'll have until fall though. And I don't want to cause anybody a nervous breakdown over this. But if your ideas are correct and the world gets a visual on a brown dwarf star, we can forget about stocking up on tuna fish and batteries. Store shelves will be empty. 

Take care Joe.

 

[Joe_in_RP]

 

Thank you for the kind words Dave.

Quote

Do you know Samie? I think that he lives in the Philippines too.

I do not recognize that name. There are over 100 million people here. Almost a million Adventists.

Quote

Are you worried about it?

I am not at all worried about it, Although I am preparing. Out of faith I am preparing.  Psychologically, Spiritually and Psychically.

Quote

But if your ideas are correct and the world gets a visual on a brown dwarf star, we can forget about stocking up on tuna fish and batteries. Store shelves will be empty. 

I agree. Its my opinion that the visual sighting of the Brown Dwarf in Sept is the Midnight call in Matthew.

Matthew 25:6

But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’

 

Jesus said there would be a last minute warning to the virgins.  I believe the Brown Dwarf is that warning.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Joe_in_RP
More info

[Gary K]

Hi Joe,

I just watched your video.  Very interesting indeed.  The only problem I have with it is the specificness of the time frame for we are told that no one but the Father knows the specific day or hour of the second coming.  Your conclusions, if true, makes it possible to know very specifically the time.  The other problem I have is that we are also told that there would be no more time prophecies.  No setting of dates. It's true there is a little leeway one way or the other in what you're saying, but not much.  That makes me skeptical to a certain degree.  As far as the brown star and all that I don't have any issue in believing you on that. 

I do believe that the timing is right for the willingness of the general public to hate anyone the media portrays negatively is at levels I've never seen in my life time.  Very few people are thinking for themselves any more.  The polarization is incredible.  All it would take to turn the general public into a raging mob would be for the media to blame some group for the calamaties that have befallen them and the public would be out to murder the people in that group.  All of this tells me the time is ripe for probation to close.

[Joe_in_RP]

Hello Gary. Thank you for your comments.

I agree with you, that the Bible says we know not the day or hour of Jesus return. That's not what I'm predicting. Honestly I have no idea when Jesus will return.

But I believe, Revelation 12 one through four, is a time prophecy about the brown dwarf passing our planet. I believe this event is the midnight cry spoken of in Matthew 25.

Now how long from that point until Jesus comes, I have no idea. Although Mrs. White's says things will go very quickly at the end.

And yes I have read where she says there will be no more time prophecies after 1844. However my memory is a little fuzzy, perhaps someone can help me out, but it seems to me there was an Adventist to predicted the end of the Ottoman empire based on Daniel.  If that's true, that would've been another time prophecy after 1844.

And my point in the video, is that for thousands of years people use stars as a calendar. John at the time you wrote that used the stars as his calendar. So this time prophecy is been hidden in plain view for 2000 years. It does not surprise me that the Lord kept it hidden until just before it happened. Because as many people have said, If I knew the date I would probably delay getting ready. So I understand why it has been hidden until now.  And everything you said has been rolling around in my head for over year since I discovered this.

But something else is rolling around in my head. There is a brown dwarf star in our solar system. Even NASA says so. They don't call it a brown dwarf, they call it a planet. But that's a deception. Planets don't create gravity only stars can create gravity. So they know it's a brown dwarf. And they know exactly where it's at. That's why they keep taking scientific instruments off-line. They don't want the general public to know. So this tremendous amount of deception and hiding causes me to be very suspicious.

We (amateur scientists) know The brown dwarf will pass by our sun. This will be a very big event. My point in my other videos is the biggest event since Genesis 6. I cannot believe, that something this big would not in the Bible or Mrs. White's writings. So I believe all the calamity she talks about will be after September 23/24 . It's also interesting in Marvin Moore's book the coming calamity, he specifically talks about asteroids. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think that's the work of the Holy Spirit.

The amateur astronomers all know there will be a lot of meteorites piling into Earth after the flyby. That fits with Mrs. White's descriptions of the calamities.

Then we have revelation 12:3

 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon....

It's telling us this is clearly in the heaven. And it's a great/enormous red Dragon.

So we have this brown dwarf coming in, it's covered by a red oxide cloud, and it sure sounds like it fits 12:3

The smallest brown dwarf is about 65 times the size of our planet. So that would be enormous.

That's why I'm going out on a limb here. But, I'm always interested to hear other peoples viewpoint. That's why I posted here. Just in case I might have missed something.

I agree with you about the polarization. It's not just USA or North America. I see this developing all over the world including where I am in the Philippines.

Also this populism as they call it, were popular leaders are elected, and seems to do no wrong, is very dangerous. This is also going on all around the world.

It's going to be very interesting this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Joe_in_RP
More words

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Joe_in_RP said:

Planets don't create gravity only stars can create gravity.

That's not true.  Anything with mass creates gravity.  Gravitational force is an inherent and inseparable property of mass.

Anyways, there may or may not be a brown dwarf star or huge exoplanet in our solar system. The configuration of Virgo on 9/23/2017 may or may not be a biblical cosmic sign.  Friday night's appearance of a partial lunar eclipse along with a comet passing less than 8 million miles from earth may or may not be a biblical cosmic sign.  The total solar eclipse passing directly over much of North America on Aug. 21, 2017 may or may not be a biblical cosmic sign.  I don't imagine that any of these events "fulfill" the prophecies concerning cosmic disturbances in scripture.  Cosmic disturbances are consistently  associated with the return of Christ following very closely thereafter.

In my opinion, the first seal of Revelation represents the identification of the antichrist (at least to those who are watching).  Both Christian and Islamic students of eschatology agree on this..  This event kicks off the 70th week of Daniel and the last seven years of this age.  It ain't happened yet; so I believe that we are at least 7 years away from Christ's return.  That being said, I could be wrong.

[Gary K]

3 hours ago, Joe_in_RP said:

Hello Gary. Thank you for your comments.

I agree with you, that the Bible says we know not the day or hour of Jesus return. That's not what I'm predicting. Honestly I have no idea when Jesus will return.

But I believe, Revelation 12 one through four, is a time prophecy about the brown dwarf passing our planet. I believe this event is the midnight cry spoken of in Matthew 25.

Now how long from that point until Jesus comes, I have no idea. Although Mrs. White's says things will go very quickly at the end.

And yes I have read where she says there will be no more time prophecies after 1844. However my memory is a little fuzzy, perhaps someone can help me out, but it seems to me there was an Adventist to predicted the end of the Ottoman empire based on Daniel.  If that's true, that would've been another time prophecy after 1844.

And my point in the video, is that for thousands of years people use stars as a calendar. John at the time you wrote that used the stars as his calendar. So this time prophecy is been hidden in plain view for 2000 years. It does not surprise me that the Lord kept it hidden until just before it happened. Because as many people have said, If I knew the date I would probably delay getting ready. So I understand why it has been hidden until now.  And everything you said has been rolling around in my head for over year since I discovered this.

But something else is rolling around in my head. There is a brown dwarf star in our solar system. Even NASA says so. They don't call it a brown dwarf, they call it a planet. But that's a deception. Planets don't create gravity only stars can create gravity. So they know it's a brown dwarf. And they know exactly where it's at. That's why they keep taking scientific instruments off-line. They don't want the general public to know. So this tremendous amount of deception and hiding causes me to be very suspicious.

We (amateur scientists) know The brown dwarf will pass by our sun. This will be a very big event. My point in my other videos is the biggest event since Genesis 6. I cannot believe, that something this big would not in the Bible or Mrs. White's writings. So I believe all the calamity she talks about will be after September 23/24 . It's also interesting in Marvin Moore's book the coming calamity, he specifically talks about asteroids. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think that's the work of the Holy Spirit.

The amateur astronomers all know there will be a lot of meteorites piling into Earth after the flyby. That fits with Mrs. White's descriptions of the calamities.

Then we have revelation 12:3

 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon....

It's telling us this is clearly in the heaven. And it's a great/enormous red Dragon.

So we have this brown dwarf coming in, it's covered by a red oxide cloud, and it sure sounds like it fits 12:3

The smallest brown dwarf is about 65 times the size of our planet. So that would be enormous.

That's why I'm going out on a limb here. But, I'm always interested to hear other peoples viewpoint. That's why I posted here. Just in case I might have missed something.

I agree with you about the polarization. It's not just USA or North America. I see this developing all over the world including where I am in the Philippines.

Also this populism as they call it, were popular leaders are elected, and seems to do no wrong, is very dangerous. This is also going on all around the world.

It's going to be very interesting this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi again Joe,

Just a small bit on your post above.

The time prophecies Ellen White said would be no more have to do with the second coming.  I don't see the collapse of the Ottoman empire as being associated with the second coming.

 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Gary K said:

Hi again Joe,

Just a small bit on your post above.

The time prophecies Ellen White said would be no more have to do with the second coming.  I don't see the collapse of the Ottoman empire as being associated with the second coming.

 

"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. ¹⁰ They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. ¹¹ The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction" (Rev. 17:9-11)

There are quite a few theologians who believe that the Ottoman Empire could be the 7th King mentioned in Revelation 17; and the resurgence of an Islamic Caliphate as being the 8th King whose deadly wound was healed. They see the 5 Kingdoms "that were" as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece; the kingdom "that is" as Rome; and the kingdoms "that will be" as the Ottoman Empire and a  revived Islamic Caliphate.  All of these kingdoms have been (or will be) satanic tools used to annihilate God's Chosen people (Israel); and in the latter days, Israelites and Christians.  After reading the Quran and certain hadiths that parallel Christian eschatology (except heroes and villains are switched) so much it's creepy, I'm a believer!

It's time we look at eschatology in light of current-day events and culture; not those of 150 years ago.  EGW was fine for her time (and even now as inspirational material); but current events and culture nullify her interpretations of her visions.  Visions may have been genuine; but interpretations were faulty.

 

[Gary K]

3 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. ¹⁰ They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. ¹¹ The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction" (Rev. 17:9-11)

There are quite a few theologians who believe that the Ottoman Empire could be the 7th King mentioned in Revelation 17; and the resurgence of an Islamic Caliphate as being the 8th King whose deadly wound was healed. They see the 5 Kingdoms "that were" as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece; the kingdom "that is" as Rome; and the kingdoms "that will be" as the Ottoman Empire and a  revived Islamic Caliphate.  All of these kingdoms have been (or will be) satanic tools used to annihilate God's Chosen people (Israel); and in the latter days, Israelites and Christians.  After reading the Quran and certain hadiths that parallel Christian eschatology (except heroes and villains are switched) so much it's creepy, I'm a believer!

It's time we look at eschatology in light of current-day events and culture; not those of 150 years ago.  EGW was fine for her time (and even now as inspirational material); but current events and culture nullify her interpretations of her visions.  Visions may have been genuine; but interpretations were faulty.

 

Sorry, but I see that the same as saying, Well, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Paul were fine for their time but now we need new thinking.  I have seen nothing that nullifies Ellen White and I have studied her pretty intently over the last few decades.  The eschatology you are referring to is nothing more than old error being recycled.  It has been around longer than Ellen White's writings.  The SDA pioneers were refuting it as existing error in their day.

 

[JoeMo]

Gary,

You are free to believe about EGW whatever you please; just as I am free to not swallow every word that she says as inerrant "truth".  Please show me documentation of this "old error" that's been around longer than EGW's writings.  Western people in the mid 1800's barely knew what Islam was.

I also studied EGW for many decades; and found enough stuff in her writings that contradict (or can't be shown in) scripture that I have to relegate her as a far secondary source compared to scripture.

[Gary K]

31 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Gary,

You are free to believe about EGW whatever you please; just as I am free to not swallow every word that she says as inerrant "truth".  Please show me documentation of this "old error" that's been around longer than EGW's writings.  Western people in the mid 1800's barely knew what Islam was.

I also studied EGW for many decades; and found enough stuff in her writings that contradict (or can't be shown in) scripture that I have to relegate her as a far secondary source compared to scripture.

I have a whole slew of books by about 30 different SDA pioneers and cannot remember exactly which book what I'm looking for is in.  I will give you a link that shows how long this type of error has been around though.  It's based upon the acceptance of Greece rather than Rome as the fourth kingdom of Daniel's prophecies.   The link follows.

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/q28.htm

[JoeMo]

Hey Gary,

That was a great read; and very interesting; but it is still just an SDA "view" of things.  The article had to do with Antiochus Epiphanes and the Greeks.  My contention has to do with Islam being the 7th and 8th Kingdoms of John's Revelation 17;  which didn't exist until 1,000 years after Daniel.

[Gary K]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Hey Gary,

That was a great read; and very interesting; but it is still just an SDA "view" of things.  The article had to do with Antiochus Epiphanes and the Greeks.  My contention has to do with Islam being the 7th and 8th Kingdoms of John's Revelation 17;  which didn't exist until 1,000 years after Daniel.

Hi Joemo,

It seems we are hijacking Joe in RP's thread here.  Sorry I misunderstood your thrust on the prophecies but most people when they start talking Egypt are getting into Antiochus Epiphanes and his relatives.  That's why I went where I did with my reply.  I think if you want to continue with this you should start a new thread so we don't ruin this thread because it is an interesting one.

[Gary K]

Joe_RP,

Do not be discouraged, some of us have not quit thinking about this.  Do you have anything in writing that I could download so that I could access it locally?  I like the written word much more than what I hear aurally and I learn much better from what comes in from my eyes than I do from what I hear. 

I would really like to do a bunch more research into this so having local documentation would really help. 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

BTW, you have sparked my thinking to go into areas that it had not previously gone.

[Joe_in_RP]

Gary

I will see what I can do about Rev 12.

I do have other ideas and proof. Since there is interest, I will post it in another thread.

 

Joe