Thoughts and How Far Questions "Should" Go

[Andrew Smith]

Today I was reading an article about the historical Jesus. Very good, for anyone that is interested I will post the link in the comment section. But what got me thinking was a comment left on the article. A person said, in so many words, "for people that rely on this information (for faith) their thoughts go too far". Now don't get me wrong, my faith has been based on the Bible and I grew up as an Adventist. Nonetheless this statement got to me, shouldn't we be able to criticize and scrutinize the Bible to the point that the pages jump from the bindings? Doesn't God ask us to test him (on some maters)? If the Bible doesn't / couldn't hold up to archeological finds or historical evidence, isn't that something to question? I do understand that there comes a point where thoughts become spherical, lapping back again and again to the first question (e.g then what created God?). I guess I am hoping to see what others think about this. If we do question, is there a limit to where we should stop? If so, why? 

[Andrew Smith]

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/

This is the article is anyone is interested. 

[CoAspen]

Very interesting article. To me, testing is very appropriate.

[Gregory Matthews]

Your cited article is very interesting.  But,  it is longer than I have the time, at the moment, to adequately consider.

But, I will respond to your question as to the relation between the bible and history/archaeology.

My thinking falls into the following:

1)  The Bible is authorative as to what is needed for salvation and the manner in which God has participated in our human existence.

2)  My understanding as to what the Bible teaches may be defective and not inerrant.  E.G.   IF I believe that  the Bible teaches some 6,000 years of human existence, that is simply my understanding and I should be open to the idea that the Bible does not teach such.

3)  Conflicts between the Bible and history/archaeology may either be real or they may be apparent.  IOW, those  conflicts may not be real and may be due to insufficient information on my part as to either the Bible of history/archaeology.  E.G.  A biblical verse in the OT states that the Children of Israel built Ramses.  In actual fact, they did not.  But, the Biblical verse was correct.  The resolution is exactly the same as applies to a modern statement that New York City was founded by the Dutch.  It was not.  But, the statement is actually true.  How so?   The Dutch founded a city named New Amsterdam  That city name has now been changed to New York City.

4)  The Bible is limited to the areas in which it is an authority.  It should not be considered an authority in the area of nuclear physics.  I should not evaluate the Periodic Table by what the Bible says.

5)  In general, science explains the past in terms of the current.  The Bible explains the past outside of the terms of the current.  To put it in modern terms, the  Bible is founded in an explaination prior to the Big Bang.  IOW, lit might be said that the Bible deals with metaphysics, while science generally does not.  NOTE:  Yes, I know that there a field of study that attempts to postulate answers that are grounded in metaphysics and/or attempts to deal with events prior to the Big Bang.

6) Both science and archaeology are changing fields of study.  What one postulates today may not be what is accepted 50 years from now. So, I cannot consider either to be an authority over the Bible.

7)  Whether or not archaeology confirms the Bible depends upon who your read and when you read it.  What is considered to be in conflict today with the Bible may be found at a later time to agree with the Bible.  That has happened multiple of times.

 

 

   

 

 

 

[Andrew Smith]

So, the following are pretty much my thoughts rambling on with questions, before that though: I do understand where you come from Gregory. Pretty much that God judges us on what we know. And it is up to us to find reliable sources, sources that can convince us, so that we have a bases to believe. One of those ways is to use the Bible where the Bible is needed and keep it in the confines of its purpose (e.g. Don't use it to build a house.. but maybe a boat). I struggle with the subjectivity of it all. How can we really on anything? 

 

Without further ado... my crazy, insane, thought pattern lol.. if you care to read:

So, I guess my next question would be, how do you choose a source to trust? Do we simply pick the ones that go along the lines of our religion, do we take all views as possible, do we except views and except that things are subject to change? I mean, if everything is subject to change then how can we say one source is over another? (Maybe THIS is going too far lol)

but I suppose that we are limited to the knowledge we have now, take what you can get, keep what is useful, discard what is not. But... how would one ever know what is useful? (Reading over it: obviously hot things are hot, and one can learn to not touch the stove. The question is more so directed to history.) For all we ever know, everything we were ever taught was a lie (e.g. Did George Washington really exists, where you there? How do you chooses what to rely on.. maybe just using rational thought you can debunk this one, I am unraveling it myself as I speak)...or has potential to be so. But then again, what choice do we have? At that point how do we blame others that are in a different religion, or de we? Some of even the same denomination have views that stretch what it is supposed to be (or my opinion of what it is supposed to be) lol I think I'm going crazy. If everything is subjective how can we have any objectivity? 

 

[Andrew Smith]

Well, God didn't create stupid creatures, we should be able to use our own rationality to answer most questions. Or use the ability of picking people and sources that are as reliable as we can find and build off of that. Trust that God has/had a plan for it all.

 

no matter how blind I feel sometimes, I am sure he has a purpose through it all, something I need to learn. 

 

Thoguh, I suppose, the changing or learning of facts does not make them subjective. One can touch the stove when it is cool and not get burned, but when it is on and his hand blisters, does not make it subjective. If anything it would be objective. It is hot when it is on and cold when it is off. What can make it subjective is in the way we look at it. More so, what is hot? How do you know hot is hot and cold is cold.. but that in itself is objective. Just because someone else might have another word or syble for hot does not change the fact that his hand has blisters from heat. 

Like I said, I'm a bit crazy and I digress, 

[Gary K]

On 1/30/2017 at 4:18 AM, Andrew Smith said:

Well, God didn't create stupid creatures, we should be able to use our own rationality to answer most questions. Or use the ability of picking people and sources that are as reliable as we can find and build off of that. Trust that God has/had a plan for it all.

 

no matter how blind I feel sometimes, I am sure he has a purpose through it all, something I need to learn. 

 

Thoguh, I suppose, the changing or learning of facts does not make them subjective. One can touch the stove when it is cool and not get burned, but when it is on and his hand blisters, does not make it subjective. If anything it would be objective. It is hot when it is on and cold when it is off. What can make it subjective is in the way we look at it. More so, what is hot? How do you know hot is hot and cold is cold.. but that in itself is objective. Just because someone else might have another word or syble for hot does not change the fact that his hand has blisters from heat. 

Like I said, I'm a bit crazy and I digress, 

I would suggest one thing, and one thing only to you.  Take all of your questions to God.  Tell Him plainly about them and ask that He answer your questions.  Then wait upon the Lord.  Ellen White tells us that the honor of both the Father and the Son are involved making sure that your faith in them is rewarded. 

I have had many questions over the years and I've simply taken them to God in prayer and then waited for them to be answered.  They have been every time.  Sometimes quickly, and sometimes not so quickly.  Often they have been answered while studying to learn something else completely and having both the question and the answer brought forcefully to my mind as soon as I read the answer.  God never fails us.