SDA Center for Interfaith Understanding

[Gregory Matthews]

See:

http://atoday.org/johnsson-center-for-understanding-world-religions-opens-at-loma-linda-university/

[JoeMo]

The article stated:

"Two other faculty members at LLU, Dr. Mahmoud Torabinejad, from the dental faculty, and Dr. Eba Hathout, from the School of Medicine, spoke on the topic, “What is it like to be a Muslim at Loma Linda University.” Students and faculty participated in a panel discussion about how Christians and Muslims can understand each other better."

In my humble opinion, Muslims and Christians will never understand each other.  Islam is the largest and most vicious anti-Christian and anti-Israel religion the planet has ever seen - worse than Hitler.  Christians worship the one true God - Yahweh -; while Islam worships the enemy of Yahweh, whom they call Allah.  Islam denies the deity of Christ, and states that all Christians and Jews must eventually convert to Islam or die.  The radical ones are a religion of hatred and a culture of death whose "beneficent, and merciful" god wants to fill hell with the rotting carcasses of jinns (Islamic word for demons) and humans.  In almost all "interfaith" groups, it is always the Christians who must make concessions to Islam; while Islam never concedes anything.  I wish them luck on reaching any kind of "understanding".

Here are just a few verses from the Quran that show how loving and understanding Islam is :

""And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" (Quran 2:191-193)

" "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  (Quran 2:216)

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."(Quran 3:56)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"(Quran 5:33)

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.  How many times does the Bible say "kill everyone that doesn't believe in me."  And we think that we will "make friends" with them? Find a common ground?  Think again.

[CoAspen]

So...are you suggesting to not even try? Are you suggesting that all Muslims believe/enterpret the same? Just curious.........

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

LLU should take advice from "The Three Wise Guys" program on the radio.  The three "wise guys" are Rabbi Steven Engel, Imam Muhammad Musri, and Rev. Bryan Fulwider (my cousin).

http://twgradio.com/about-us/history/

 

[Samie]

It appears that the wall of division that Christ has torn down when by His death He reconciled the world to God is being painstakingly reared up again by world religions, Christianity NOT excluded. And I guess the SDA Center at LLU is a worthy endeavor towards dismantling that wall. 

Couple that with the proclamation that people are born in Christ and hence all are one In Him Crucified, parts of His Body, members of the family of God.  But since we all have sinned, all we need is repent, that is, overcome evil with good.  Overcomers will Christ not blot out from the book of life and will be seated with Him in His throne even as He also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:5, 21).

The command to repent is what God made in the OT (Ezek 18:30), the same command He now wants all men everywhere to do (Acts 17:30), the same command Jesus issued when He preached the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 1:14, 15), the same gospel He wanted preached to the world before He comes again (Matt 24:14).

May the SDA Center for Interfaith Understanding be also a Center for preaching the gospel Jesus wanted preached to the world.

[Gustave]

Interfaith Dialog is a good thing as it fosters agreement in common ground. In particular Islam has always been thought of fondly by Adventists.

 

"the Turks profess the religion of Mohammed: "The creed of that faith is generally compressed into the well known forumla: "There is no god but God, and Mohammed is his prophet." But there is another and longer form which reads as follow:

"I believe in God and his angels, and his books, and his prophets, and the last day, and the predestination of good and evil by God, and the resurrection after death. I bear witness to that there is no God but God, and I bear witness that Mohammed is his slave and his prophet."

From the above IT MUST BE PERFECTLY CLEAR that Mohammedanism is very far from being a heathan religion, as some are wont to believe. It teaches belief in God, angels, the prophets, the last day, and the resurrection of the dead. MORE THAN THIS ABOUT ONE HALF OF THE KORAN IS A POLEMIC AGAINST POLYTHESIM AND TRINITARIANISM. In fact the word Allah is an abbreviation of Al-iah, which means the ONE, TRUE, ONLY God". Adventist Review, October 28, 1909

 

 

[phkrause]

I know a few Adventists, or should I say just about all, that work with Muslims and say the very opposite of this statement!

7 hours ago, JoeMo said:

In my humble opinion, Muslims and Christians will never understand each other.

I believe that Muslims and Christians have much in common.

[Gustave]

True Islam is ABSOLUTELY Theocratic, therefore a Muslim can't be a good or "observant" Muslim and agree with and support a democracy guided by a Constitution such as the United States. Fortunately MOST of the world's Muslims are no different than people of other faith traditions - they only want to live in peace and have their families be ok.

I've had the pleasure to work with many Muslims and they readily admit the above - the acts perpetuated by a minority of the religion are not terrorist acts - they are simply the acts of "devout" Muslims.

Adventists, because of their Arian understanding of Jesus ( That God could wipe Him out at any time ) are in a unique position to witness to Muslims & have interfaith discussions.

 

"Unbelievers are those who declare: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary'. Say: "Who could prevent God, if He so willed from destroying the Messiah, the son of Mary, his Mother, and all the people of the earth? Koran 5:17 ( The Table ).

 

Ellen White, Signs of the Times, June 9th 1898
Could Satan in the least particular have tempted Christ to sin, he would have bruised the Saviour's head. As it was, he could only touch His heel. Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. Christ and the church would have been without hope

Signs of the Time April 2, 1940
It is VITAL for every Christian TO KNOW that Jesus Christ MIGHT have sinned. The Master was not beyond the clutches of temptation. The Heaven-sent Gift could have been eternally lost and the doom of humanity would have been eternally sealed.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

When we quote form the Bible, we typically give the translation (Version) that  we cite.  We do this because several exist--KJV, NKJV, RSV, NIV and many more.

The same situation exists in regard to quoting form the Quran.  Many translations into English exist.  Just as exists with translations of the Bible, some English translations are considered to be better than others.

It looks to me like the translation cited above came from a secondary source, rather than directly from an English translation.

The following consists of seven (7) Different translation of Quran 5:17, with the source of this  quote given at the top, and the name of each translation cited:

NOTE:  My personal preference is another translation of the Quran.  It may be said that there are differences between the translations below and what was cited above are minor.  I am simply saying that I consider it to be best to  cite from a primary source and to give the actual translation.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=17

 

Sahih International: They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

Pickthall: They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.

Yusuf Ali: In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

Shakir: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah has power over all things,

Muhammad Sarwar: Those who have said that the Messiah, son of Mary, is God, have, in fact, committed themselves to disbelief. (Muhammad), ask them, "Who can prevent God from destroying the Messiah, his mother and all that is in the earth?" To God belongs all that is in the heavens, the earth, and all that is between them. God creates whatever He wants and He has power over all things.

Mohsin Khan: Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary). Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.

Arberry: They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Messiah, Mary's son.' Say: 'Who then shall overrule God in any way if He desires to destroy the Messiah, Mary's son, and his mother, and all those who are on earth?' For to God belongs the kingdom of the heavens and of the earth, and all that is between them, creating what He will. God is powerful over everything.

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, phkrause said:

I know a few Adventists, or should I say just about all, that work with Muslims and say the very opposite of this statement!

I believe that Muslims and Christians have much in common.

If we look at any religious system - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. There is a common thread through them all Sure - both Muslims and Christians are monotheistic; but the similarities stop there.  The overriding difference is that the Christian God is a God of love and life; and His Son is the only path to salvation through grace; while the Islamic allah is a God of vengeance, retribution, and death - wanting to fill hell with eternally suffering jinns and humans - a god who has no son.  Christians believe in converting people through love and grace.  Muslims believe in converting people through fear and persecution.

If "moderate" Muslims are against radical Islam, why don't they speak out more forcefully against them?  Because they know that radical Islam practices just what the Quran teaches.  ISIS practices the Islamic version of "sola scriptura".  They also probably don't want to get disfellowshipped from the mosque or otherwise punished.

There is only one genuine Quran, and it is written in ancient Arabic.  When the Quran is read in mosque or memorized, it is usually in Arabic.  There are Muslims who have memorized the entire Quran (ie., they have memorized all of the Arabic words); but they don't understand a word of what is said or memorized.  It would be like memorizing the Septuagint even though you didn't understand a word of Greek.

Come to think of it, there are some "Christians" who behave like radical Islamists - the Westboro Baptist Church and the Arian nation - but they are much smaller than al-Qaida or ISIS.

[Gary K]

I have known a couple of Muslims pretty well, and one real well.  He was a visitor at my home and someone I corresponded with him by letter for a couple of years after he moved away.  He was a pretty strict Muslim whose wife was completely covered from head to toe with only holes for her to see through, and she walked a few paces behind him whereever they walked together. 

We talked quite a few times on the differences between our religions.  He was no believer in grace.  A Muslim has to work his way to heaven.  There is no regeneration of the human heart, just following the rules and doing what you are ordered to.  Change of heart as basically an anathema to him.  You go to heaven just the way you are born.  There is no being born again with new ideals, new motives, new anything in Islam.  Even the idea of sinful human nature was to him a foreign concept.

[Gustave]

16 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

When we quote form the Bible, we typically give the translation (Version) that  we cite.  We do this because several exist--KJV, NKJV, RSV, NIV and many more.

The same situation exists in regard to quoting form the Quran.  Many translations into English exist.  Just as exists with translations of the Bible, some English translations are considered to be better than others.

It looks to me like the translation cited above came from a secondary source, rather than directly from an English translation.

The following consists of seven (7) Different translation of Quran 5:17, with the source of this  quote given at the top, and the name of each translation cited:

NOTE:  My personal preference is another translation of the Quran.  It may be said that there are differences between the translations below and what was cited above are minor.  I am simply saying that I consider it to be best to  cite from a primary source and to give the actual translation.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=17

 

The Koran with Parallel Arabic text

Translated by N.J. Dawood

ISBN 0-14-044542-0

"The moral right  of the translator has been asserted

The Arabic text in this parallel edition is a facsimile of a Koran penned by the calligrapher Hamid al-midi and first printed in Istanbul in 1974 in accordance with Decision Number 212 of the Turkish Government's Commission on the verification of Koranic Texts".

I purchased it not long after 9-11 and within 3 months had read it cover to cover & booked marked it.

[Gregory Matthews]

Interesting.  Thank you.

The one that I use and prefer is:

The Holy Quran. English translation of the meanings and Commentary, Revised and edited by The Presidency of Islamic Researches, IFTA  and published by The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahad Complex For the Printing of the Holy Quran. 

It contains more than 2,000 pages.

My preference is based upon the fact that it is also a commentary on how Islamic scholars understand the verses in the Quran.

 

NOTE:  For any who may wonder why I have spelled it as Quran and Gustave has spelled it as Koran:  This is a transliteration issue.  Both versions are used.  Some prefer one and others prefer the other.