Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 4, 2017 Members Posted March 4, 2017 interesting research! Quote When people publicly rage about perceived injustices that don't affect them personally, we tend to assume this expression is rooted in altruism—a "disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others." But new research suggests that professing such third-party concern—what social scientists refer to as "moral outrage"—is often a function of self-interest, wielded to assuage feelings of personal culpability for societal harms or reinforce (to the self and others) one's own status as a Very Good Person. Outrage expressed "on behalf of the victim of [a perceived] moral violation" is often thought of as "a prosocial emotion" rooted in "a desire to restore justice by fighting on behalf of the victimized," explain Bowdoin psychology professor Zachary Rothschild and University of Southern Mississippi psychology professor Lucas A. Keefer in the latest edition of Motivation and Emotion. Yet this conventional construction—moral outrage as the purview of the especially righteous—is "called into question" by research on guilt, they say. http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/01/moral-outrage-is-self-serving Stan, Gregory Matthews and GayatfootofCross 3 Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
GayatfootofCross Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 yes! It seems I get more upset at others what I have also done to others in the past. My list is long. I used to hate QUEERS and said and done as much. Even in Gods Name! Stan 1 For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
GayatfootofCross Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, GayatfootofCross said: yes! It seems I get more upset at others what I have also done to others in the past. My list is long. I used to hate QUEERS and said and done as much. Even in Gods Name! # very embarrassed to say Stan 1 For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Gary K Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Quote Psalm 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. This prophecy of Jesus and how He would hate iniquity must mean then that Jesus was almost completely overcome with guilt for all the wrong He had done while here on earth. ***shakes head in disbelief*** Stan 1
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 4, 2017 Moderators Posted March 4, 2017 You missed the point. Your sarcasm is evident. Or, shall I call it satire? phkrause, rudywoofs (Pam), Stan and 1 other 4 Gregory
CoAspen Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Quote Why do people express moral outrage? While this sentiment often stems from a perceived violation of some moral principle, we test the counter-intuitive possibility that moral outrage at third-party transgressions is sometimes a means of reducing guilt over one’s own moral failings and restoring a moral identity. A quote from the abstract that the article is referring to. Would have to pay to read the original online. Since I am a numbers person, would like to see the raw data. Based on the abstract, one should not be surprised at the conclusions. I think most people have some modicum of doubt about various persons or groups 'moral outrage'. But notice that article abstract is saying 'sometimes', a very important word as a quick view might lead some to the wrong conclusions. JoeMo and Stan 2
Gary K Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said: You missed the point. Your sarcasm is evident. Or, shall I call it satire? Nope. It wasn't sarcasm or satire. It was showing the direct implications of what would be true about Jesus if what rudywoofs posted was actually true. When Jesus ran the moneychangers out the temple, not once but twice, He was showing moral outrage. When He knelt in the dust of the street and began writing out the sins of those who "caught" the woman in adultery He was showing moral outrage. When He pointed out again and again the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders He was showing moral outrage. When He said it would be better that someone had been drowned rather than having done evil to a child He was showing moral outrage. He did showed moral outrage time and time again. I guess rudywoofs didn't consider that when she posted the quote. When a person is born again and lives within an abiding relationship with God all sense of guilt and shame over their past is gone. And what is more Jesus sends the Holy Spirit to give those people His attributes which includes His hatred of evil, pain and suffering. I guess rudywoofs didn't consider that either. Stan 1
CoAspen Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Missing the point.....is it intentional or mearly because of a predisposition? The research said that 'sometimes'........ Sheesh!!! Stan, JoeMo and rudywoofs (Pam) 3
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 4, 2017 Author Members Posted March 4, 2017 Gary, I GUESS you didn't read the article very well, or else you really missed the point. The article explicitly stated "perceived injustices that don't affect them personally" .... I GUESS you never read Matthew 12:48,49 where Jesus states that His family consisted of those who did the will of the Father. When something affects your family, it affects you personally. .... Well, maybe it doesn't affect *you* personally, but it does for most of us. I GUESS you didn't consider that. And by the way, "I GUESS" is a phrase "expressing disdain for something or someone, expressing uncertainty or confusion, expressing the irony and absurdity of a situation, expressing sarcasm, or expressing apathy towards something or someone." I GUESS you didn't consider that, either. Stan 1 Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Administrators Gail Posted March 4, 2017 Administrators Posted March 4, 2017 I wasn't too surprised to read that, as the Bible says: Quote Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. I would think that is possible, but I can't tell for another what their motives are. I can only examine myself, whether I am part of the problem or the solution. rudywoofs (Pam), GayatfootofCross, JoeMo and 1 other 4 Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted March 4, 2017 Administrators Posted March 4, 2017 37 minutes ago, CoAspen said: Missing the point.....is it intentional or mearly because of a predisposition? The research said that 'sometimes'........ Sheesh!!! It's interesting what "piques" a person... (Pique= poke, like with a needle) Stan and rudywoofs (Pam) 2 Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Gary K Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: Gary, I GUESS you didn't read the article very well, or else you really missed the point. The article explicitly stated "perceived injustices that don't affect them personally" .... I GUESS you never read Matthew 12:48,49 where Jesus states that His family consisted of those who did the will of the Father. When something affects your family, it affects you personally. .... Well, maybe it doesn't affect *you* personally, but it does for most of us. I GUESS you didn't consider that. And by the way, "I GUESS" is a phrase "expressing disdain for something or someone, expressing uncertainty or confusion, expressing the irony and absurdity of a situation, expressing sarcasm, or expressing apathy towards something or someone." I GUESS you didn't consider that, either. rudywoofs, We are not to care about something that happens to others? When I see someone beating another person up I am to walk the other way because it does not affect me personally? When I see a con man stealing from another person I am to just look the other way because he is not stealing from me? When I see a parent abusing a child I am to simply look the other way because it is not affecting me personally? Are we, or are we not, according to the Bible, to be our brothers keepers? Quote Isaiah 1:16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, 17 learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause. (ESV translation) "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke My usage of "I guess" was meant in the same way as saying "apparently". It was not meant sarcastically. Even if it had been said sarcastically, I thought you loved satire/sarcasm, so why the outrage? I do not get your anger at what you percieve as nothing different than what you and others have been dishing out enthusiastically. Stan 1
CoAspen Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Houston....we have a problem........ Stan and rudywoofs (Pam) 2
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 4, 2017 Author Members Posted March 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Gary K said: Even if it had been said sarcastically, I thought you loved satire/sarcasm, so why the outrage? I do not get your anger at what you percieve as nothing different than what you and others have been dishing out enthusiastically. Outrage???? Try again. I thought it quite ironic that you were doing what you were condemning. Stan 1 Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 4, 2017 Author Members Posted March 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, CoAspen said: Houston....we have a problem........ wowsers... isn't *that* the truth?! Stan 1 Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Gary K Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 18 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: Outrage???? Try again. I thought it quite ironic that you were doing what you were condemning. No. It is what you percieved me as doing. Not what I was doing. Big difference. Stan 1
B/W Photodude Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Gary K said: It was showing the direct implications of what would be true about Jesus if what rudywoofs posted was actually true. When Jesus ran the moneychangers out the temple, not once but twice, He was showing moral outrage. When He knelt in the dust of the street and began writing out the sins of those who "caught" the woman in adultery He was showing moral outrage. When He pointed out again and again the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders He was showing moral outrage. When He said it would be better that someone had been drowned rather than having done evil to a child He was showing moral outrage. He did showed moral outrage time and time again. Like it has been said regarding the black and white of online communication and the ease with which people misinterpret another's comments, I also tend to think we miss the non-verbal communication of Jesus when he did the things and said the things he did. When he called the Pharisees hypocrites we may believe that he was angry with them. But if you look at the totality of how he spoke of people, I suspect he was full of sorrow and yearning for the souls of these people. In fact, it even broke through when he wept over Jerusalem. His disciples, they would get morally outraged and Jesus would call them on it. So, I try and keep in mind when reading him calling the Pharisees "hypocrites" that inwardly he felt sorrow because he loved them also and would even die for them too. And don't you think he would even welcome Annias and Caiphas into Heaven if they had repented and become converted after Jesus had returned to heaven. All Heaven, undoubtedly, would have rejoiced. (It could happen!) JoeMo, Stan, rudywoofs (Pam) and 1 other 4 >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism
Administrators debbym Posted March 4, 2017 Administrators Posted March 4, 2017 i think sorrow over moral failures may be less than self serving, but loudly lambasting evil doers, and proclaiming their moral failures with outrage is more likely is be something done to serve ones need to feel better. when your morality and your power to perform morally is from outside of yourself, you realize you have nothing to boast about. and then you have the opening to understand all the moral failings of others is an absence of the power of God in their lives, and nothing to attack them for. You may well know your attacks on others' failures will not bring them to Christ. The power of God in our life may give you distress over moral failures your own or of others.... Grief and repentance falls into line here. Gail, Stan and GayatfootofCross 3 deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
GayatfootofCross Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Luke 9:52-55 Tells the story of Jesus disciples being outraged at the people of Samaria and Jesus said "You don't know what spirit you are!" Gail and Stan 2 For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
GayatfootofCross Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 it still haunts me Gail and Stan 2 For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
JoeMo Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Gary, Is it just me, or do you have an axe to grind here? You have an uncanny ability to find the dark cloud in every potential silver lining that people propose here. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong from my POV. Is it just me, or do you intend to express as much moral outrage on the website as I perceive that you do? I understand that you are passionately defending the "truth" as you perceive it, and that's fine. But so often it sounds like anger or frustration. Maybe it's just my style, but I prefer to disagree with others in a more agreeable way. From my experience here, it has worked out much better. There are people on this very thread that I have had theological and philosophical disagreements with over the years; but I feel very close to them because they engage me (and hopefully I engage them) in a way that encourages discussion rather than a personal shut-down. Try it for a while. You might be pleasantly surprised at the results. Gail, Stan and rudywoofs (Pam) 3
Administrators Gail Posted March 4, 2017 Administrators Posted March 4, 2017 Here is another Biblical example that is afterward explained to us: it is the outrage that Judas showed when the woman brought the expensive perfume in the alabaster box to Jesus. It is true, that the box cost about a year's wages (and who knows what sin that woman performed all year to afford it!). Yes, of course it could have been sold to provide for the poor. But it is explained afterward that Judas really did not love the poor at all. He was helping himself to the bag where the money was kept. So, yes, in this case it was telling to at least one disciple that the motive for moral outrage was not always noble. I would not apply that to Jesus, of course, because we know that His heart was for the poor. His willingness to bare Himself to abuse on account of His stand for the disadvantaged says a lot. That and the fact that He was materially poor Himself... It makes me wonder about Judas' character if there was some doubt to his motives even before he betrayed our Lord.. Stan and rudywoofs (Pam) 2 Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted March 5, 2017 Administrators Posted March 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, JoeMo said: Gary, Is it just me, or do you have an axe to grind here? You have an uncanny ability to find the dark cloud in every potential silver lining that people propose here. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong from my POV. Is it just me, or do you intend to express as much moral outrage on the website as I perceive that you do? I understand that you are passionately defending the "truth" as you perceive it, and that's fine. But so often it sounds like anger or frustration. Maybe it's just my style, but I prefer to disagree with others in a more agreeable way. From my experience here, it has worked out much better. There are people on this very thread that I have had theological and philosophical disagreements with over the years; but I feel very close to them because they engage me (and hopefully I engage them) in a way that encourages discussion rather than a personal shut-down. Try it for a while. You might be pleasantly surprised at the results. Interesting observation, Joe, about noticing a dark cloud to every situation. I agree that there is a better way to disagree. Stan and JoeMo 2 Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
bonnie Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Can someone explain without the sarcasm why causing personal shut-down is a concern. Not once have I seen on this forum that concern expressed regarding those that disagree with some of the regular posters. If an opinion or biblical belief is expressed,take your pick, there are those that seem to take every opportunity to shut down those that disagree with the stated opinion or belief. On certain topics it takes only a very few responses for absurd comparisons and the not so subtle accusations of hate and self righteousness hypocrites gets repeated over and over. Is that honestly supposed to be believed to be good natured humor ,satire or??? Show any kind of respectful disagreement? You think what was posted by Gary is attempt to close down discussion and this not so subtle accusations of hate and self righteousness hypocrites isn't? Outta Here and Stan 2 Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 5, 2017 Author Members Posted March 5, 2017 Just FYI: I had no ulterior motives in starting this thread. Nobody specific even came to mind when I read the article in the first place. I just thought it was an interesting perspective, and one that I hadn't thought of previously, and I *thought* maybe others here on the forum might find it interesting, as well. phkrause, debbym, CoAspen and 3 others 6 Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
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