NAD Membership & $ & More

[Gregory Matthews]

See:

http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2017/05/12/drop-mic-reincarnating-adventist-faith-part-1

Does the following quote shock/challenge you?

NOTE:  This article is Part 1.  Look for more on this subject.

NOTE:  Personally, I Believe that more information is needed in order to understand the figures cited.  IOW, do not draw unjustified conclusions based on limited facts and information.

Part 2 of this series may be seen at:

http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2017/05/19/drop-mic-reincarnating-adventist-faith-part-2

 

Quote

In 1913, it took $5,500 (inflation-adjusted U.S. dollars) to bring one convert into the church; in 2005, it took $41,000.

¹ In a recent report, the Northern California Conference published its total baptisms and tithe revenue for 2014. That year, it took an investment of $98,000 in salaries, revenue, and programming to baptize one person.² And as hard as it is to get people to join us, here is the other problem: People are leaving us—in droves. General Conference research from 2013 shows that during the 21^st century, 43 people left for every 100 who joined the Adventist Church.³

 

[debbym]

We are doing much more than winning new converts.  We are maintaining an incredible education system.  We continue to nurture and minister to those who remain church attendees, providing church counseling, and chaplain services, church camps, and social events ministering to members needs.  We reach out in countless ministries in our communities, clothing, food, medical care, dental care, emotional and spiritual care.  We are a presence of compassion and prayer for the world, in spite of ourselves.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote

In 1913, it took $5,500 (inflation-adjusted U.S. dollars) to bring one convert into the church; in 2005, it took $41,000.

¹ In a recent report, the Northern California Conference published its total baptisms and tithe revenue for 2014. That year, it took an investment of $98,000 in salaries, revenue, and programming to baptize one person.² And as hard as it is to get people to join us, here is the other problem: People are leaving us—in droves. General Conference research from 2013 shows that during the 21^st century, 43 people left for every 100 who joined the Adventist Church.³

the above is a ridiculously asinine way to judge the "cost" of bagging one convert to the church.  All the author did was take the "retained tithe" garnered in the Northern California Conference for 2014 ($22,634,568), then divided that by the difference in the NCC membership number from Jan 2014 vs. Dec 2014 (229).

1..... the idea that that the retained tithe [see usage below] is to be thought of as 100% geared towards reeling in a new convert is so naive.  

Pastors’ Salaries:                                                                      $10,934,634 (48.3%)

Education (Teacher Salaries?):                                                   $6,034,430 (26.7%)

Departments, Leoni Meadows & Youth, Administration, Other:       $5,667,504 (25%)

 

2.....  the stated NCC membership difference in the article cannot be used to determine the number of converts, nor for the number who left church membership.  The numbers that were used to signify "dropped" members included those who transferred OUT of the NCC and members who were deceased.  Those folks didn't "leave" the church in the sense of purposefully disavowing their membership.

In actuality, the number of new [baptized or profession of faith] members who joined the NCC in 2014 were 662.  The actual number of people who were removed from membership in the NCC in 2014 was 61.  That's a net gain of 601.  So if we use that exceedingly flawed calculation method of convert bagging, it comes out to $37661.51 per person.

 

Perhaps we need to take a look at exactly *who* is the "man behind the curtain" making such ridiculous statements, which are obviously intended to engender pitiful handwringing from gullible church members, who apparently don't remember that God is the Head of the Church and is in masterful control.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

the article *did* assert the financial aspect as fact, since the author made the statement and referenced  it.  If it wasn't important to the "point" of the article, then why include it?

I take exception to distorting facts in order to "make a point."  I realize that my opinion doesn't mean a thing, but obfuscation isn't a virtue, in my book.  If it is in yours, fine.

 

[debbym]

5 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

"the fact" was only intended to make another much bigger point, and was not the central focus of said article, IMHO The numbers are likely close though. Its amazing to think how much churches spend, and how little they get in return for "evangelism."

it says let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven...

the return is the honor and glory given to God for the blessings from those who do the will of God.

[Gregory Matthews]

Part 2  of this series may be seen at:

http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2017/05/19/drop-mic-reincarnating-adventist-faith-part-2

NOTE:  This 2nd part is not going to satisfy, probably anyone.  I will suggest that one will need to wait for Part 3, which may provide some appropriate answers.

 

 

[Gerr]

So is it time to quit?

[CoAspen]

I liked the article because it has addressed some of my own thoughts. Even in our search for relevancy we still have a tendancy to worship the Book rather than the person it is about. Some of the most striking words that I read Christ saying to His disciples was about loving others just as God loved us. His ministry was meeting the needs of others, physical and spiritual, not, at least in my reading, join, become like us, follow this set of rules, etc, but to go tell others what God had done for them. A very difficult message to accept. Take care of others, what ever that means as lead by God and you will be doing the the same work as Christ did. 

The articles should provoke some questions and futher study.

[debbym]

Great is the Lord He is most worthy of praise, no one can measure His greatness.

We can feel we have a handle on scriptures, and they can fill our minds, but God is so great, we cannot contain God.  Yet He has made a way to live in our hearts and in our relation ships.

God is greater than the scriptures can make known.  He is greater than our hearts and imaginations. God is greater than all His creation.  Yes when i come before God and lift up a generously and divinely given promise.. i remember, He is able to do exceedingly abundant above all we ask or think.  God knows how small we are, and has a thousand ways to provide all our needs.   He longs for us to know Him, and trust Him and live, in spite of the world, and in spite of ourselves.  He is the one who pledged then poured out His life unto death for us, and continues to make His love known to us, who are so limited, with great power and tenderness.