The 24 Elders

[Kevin H]

Who are the 24 Elders?

In Revelation 4 and 5 we have a picture of God's throne

2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. 4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits[a] of God. 6 Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

"‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come."

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being."

What we have here is the throne of God with the rainbow and thundering and lightning which is a symbol of God the Father. The seven lamps which are the seven spirits of God or the Perfect Spirit of God: The Holy Spirit. Surrounding this is the 24 thrones with the 24 Elders. Then around this are the four living creatures.

This is a reflection of the camp of the Hebrews in the wilderness:

　

You have the tabernacle and the tribe of Levi in the middle and around them the 12 tribes, and each side of the encampment had a creature that symbolized those tribes, the lion of Judah on the east, the Ox of Ephraim at the west, the man of Rubin on the south and the eagle of Dan at the north.

In understanding the 24 Elders we can start with the living beasts: The living beasts are a symbol of God's people going through the wilderness from Egypt to the promised land. Today we are God's people in the wilderness from sin going to the promised land.

The 24 elders are in the location of the Levites. They were the ones who brought the messages to the tribes from the throne of God. We have the testimonies of the 12 tribes of Israel (the Old Testament) and of the 12 Apostles (the New Testament).

In Revelation 5 we find a scroll that can not be opened. That scroll is the scroll of what was to become history, but that time the present and the future. The scroll was sealed because of the sin issue. Because of sin we were to have no hope, no future, but then we learn through a representative of the 24 Elders (we learn from the Bible) about the Lamb who is able to open break the seals and open the scroll, who can cause history to happen, who can give us a hope and a future.

[Kevin H]

Now if John the Revelator is the same John as the gospel of John there is an additional significance in the 24 elders.

　

In the Bible translators have been mystified by a misspelling of the word "Multitudes" In that sometimes it is spelled correctly and other times incorrectly, yet the correct spelling and the misspelling is consistent in different Biblical books.

　

We use to think that Hebrew was a dead language in the time of Jesus and that everyone spoke Aramaic and no Hebrew. However it is now known that both languages were equally spoken. In this discovery that Hebrew was indeed a living language in Jesus' day, we realize that the misspelling of the word "Multitudes" is the correct spelling of a Hebrew word that does NOT mean multitudes, but "those at hand" or those who happened to be present. And the setting of that word is in contexts of talking to the people at hand rather than a large group.

　

When we get to the trials of Jesus, we have the misspelling when we have Pilate asking who he should release and the multitude called out "Barabbas" and called for the death of Jesus. But with the Hebrew translation of the word the indication is that there were 23 or 24 Sadducee elders who the text was talking about.

The Greek word "Sanhedrin" was found to be "Elders"

The Sanhedrin was composed of both Pharisees and Sadducees for a total of 70 elders. But they did not need all 70 to meet, they could meet with a quorum of 23 elders plus the high priest for 24 Elders. While the Sanhedrin could not crucify people they were allowed to stone them to death for religious reasons.

　

There were a number of people claiming to be the messiah as well as people who were popular. The Pharisees were of a wide variety of schools and thus different things that they were looking for. For example when Jesus and his disciples went through the grain field on Sabbath and plucked some grains to eat, this was an argument among the different schools of Pharisees. Some said it was work and thus Sabbath breaking, others argued that it was not work and thus allowed to do on the Sabbath.

　

The Sadducees were corrupt puppets of Rome, interested in their power. They would often meet as 23 Sadducees and the high priest to hold mock trials where witnesses purposely contradicted each other then drag their victims out and stone them to death. They worked with the Roman governor and if they knew of someone who could not be charged in the civil courts but might be able to be accused of religious offences would be turned to the Sadducee priests. Likewise if the Sadducees thought there could be civil charges brought against someone they would refer them to Rome.

　

But sometimes when someone was very popular with the people the Sadducees would want them to be turned over to Rome for crucifixion. The reason is that Deut. 21:23" His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance" was understood as that God would only allow his cursed enemies to hang on a tree. Thus if the Sanhedrin just stoned them they could be seen as a martyr. But to get them delivered to the Romans for crucifixion on a tree would ruin their reputation just as much as if he was caught in an affair or embezzling the church funds or anything else that if you were to hear about your pastor would horrify you and make you want to distance yourself from them. When a popular leader died on a tree his followers would think "Oh no, he was a horrible sinner cursed of God and thus I was wrong to follow him" ending the movement.

　

Thus if John the Revelator is the same John from the gospel, he had witnessed an earthly Sanhedrin representing God's government of 24 elders giving a false testimony of Jesus, and took him to Pilates where they were the people at hand were these same 24 elders saying "crucify him" and "release to us Barabbas" and "we have no king but Caesar" In Revelation 4 and 5 he sees their heavenly counter part which testified the truth about Jesus and letting us know that because of Jesus hanging on the tree he was able to open the seals and unroll the scroll of history giving you and me a future and a hope.

[CoAspen]

Most interesting, thanks!

[Rahab]

Notice that in the bible, the 24 elders are already in place before the Lamb arrives....

[phkrause]

Here's a study by Pr Bohr on the 24 Elders:

The 24 Elders - 1 of 6 - Mission Accomplished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3yYvwv8r0Y&list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm

The 24 Elders - 2 of 6 - The Return of the War Hero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L440IGZKiE4&list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm&index=2

The 24 Elders - Who Are the 24 Elders? - Part 3/6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5a8-Hto0FI&index=3&list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm

The 24 Elders - Earth's Two Representatives - Part 4/6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OLxBAYoU4&index=4&list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm

The 24 Elders - Redeemed from the Earth? - Part 5/6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Z-WFdEkSM&list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm&index=5

The 24 Elders - Future History and Functions - Part 6/6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUAXyp8AKFI&index=6&list=PLM6TM_3xeMZFqcoSJdpJM_G-ihNJoWGTm

[stinsonmarri]

Interesting comments. One person stated that they were in place before THE LAMB arrive. Yes YAHSHUA was also THE HIGH PRIEST and the first scene in Revelation Chapter One, HE is in THE HOLY PLACE! In Chapter Four we get our first description of THE MOST HOLY PLACE and the Chapter Five shows that THE FATHER, THE MOST HIGH is sitting on HIS Throne. In HIS HAND is the Book of Life. We see that YAHSHUA comes in symbolizing A LAMB to show another part of HIS Work in Heaven because HE takes the Book out of HIS FATHER'S RIGHT HAND. Now at another time we can discuss the scene in Chapter Six about the sealing. I would like for all of us to look a little more closer about the four horses and the sealing process if all don't mind!

The Seventh Day Adventist Church was founded on the scene in Revelation Chapter Five. It was shown that this was the Investigated Judgement. One thing I would like to say, that we were made in the resemblance of THE THREE BEINGS in Heaven. We have also THEIR LIKENESS or CHARACTER. Simply, we do many things like THEM because we have both an investigated judgment and an executive judgement. We have a jury of our peers and we also have people to witness the trial and those who have to testify, we have a recording clerk, a bailiff, a lawyer, a prosecutor and a judge. 

I would like to submit to you who are the the players in Heaven:

1. THE  INVESTIGATIVE JUDGE: IS THE FATHER;
2. THE EXECUTIVE JUDGE: IS YAHSHUA UNDER HIS NEW NAME
3. The recording Clerk: Is most likely Gabriel
4. THE BAILIFF: IS THE HOLY SPIRIT;
5. The Jury: is the 24 Elders;
6. The Prosecutor: Is the Commandments and Statutes
7.  The Witnesses to testify are: Enoch, Moses and Elijah
8. The Witnesses to view the trial are: Those who rose from the graves with the 24 elder, when YAHSHUA Rose!

I would love to see what others feel about pro or con for discussion!

Happy Sabbath and be bless everyone!

[phkrause]

Here's what Jon Paulien has to say about the 24 elders:

http://revelation-armageddon.com/2018/01/identity-twenty-four-elders-enthronement-4/

[Kevin H]

4 hours ago, phkrause said:

Here's what Jon Paulien has to say about the 24 elders:

http://revelation-armageddon.com/2018/01/identity-twenty-four-elders-enthronement-4/

I just read it and find  it interesting and a possibility. But I made a post sharing what we were taught at AUC (as well as some information from Dr. Fleming), which still makes the most sense to me. That is that the 4 living creatures represent God's people (who he applies the elders to) and the Elders are those who are between the living creatures and the throne, the way of communicating from the throne to the 4 creatures, and that is the testimony of the 12 tribes and 12 apostles, the word of God.

From Fleming pointed out as I've posted elsewhere here that Jesus before the Sanhedrin was not the 70 Sadducees and the different groups of Pharisees,  but the quorum of 23 Sadducees and the high priest for 24 elders who gave a false testimony of Jesus. If it's the same John in Revelation as the book of John, we have him seeing another group of 24 elders giving the true testimony of Jesus, once again the testimony of the tribes and apostles.