Unspotted From the World

[Dr. Shane]

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27

What does keeping oneself unspotted from the world mean? What part does it play in pure religion?

[Nicodema]

Hmmm, I wonder if it has to do with the way the world is always throwing mudballs and other icky things that go splat and stain on impact?

[David Koot]

This afternoon in our discussion group, we studied Romans 12:1, 2. I would think that the verse you quoted, pertains to those verses as well. V. 2: "And don't conformed to the world, but instead be transformed by the renewing of your minds . . ."

David Koot

[Robert]

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world—

a) the cravings of sinful man,

the lust of his eyes

c) and the boasting of what he has and does—

comes not from the Father but from the world.

I interpret the above as follows:

a] the desire to be # 1

b] lust/coveting - what he sees he wants

c] Bragging...It could be of one's home; one's children; one's football team; one's fancy cars. All bragging is rooted in "self" and therefore contradicts God's agape love

[Dr. Shane]

Some of the things I see of the world that can stain Christians are:

• Materialism: Living in houses that we cannot afford, driving cars we cannot afford, carrying a balance on a high-interest credit card, buying more clothing than we need, etc.
• Entertainment: Feeding our minds with secular music, movies and television.
• Diet: Eating high-fat, dairy/meat based, low-fiber diet with a lot of simple carbohydrates.
• Inactivity Not walking after eating, sitting in front of the TV or computer for long periods of time, parking close to the store, using the elevator when we could use the stairs, not exercisig, exc.
• Speach Use vulgarity, gossip and tell frivolous jokes.

Those are a few issues that are on my radar.

[gina i]

To me it means to not be 'worldly'. And that word is a very broad word, as people can use it in so many ways & it has so many definitions.

To me, it's keeping under the radar. But at the same time, aren't we to make ourselves known? In a humble way, of course.

[Robert]

It's much more than what you have listed.

[gina i]

Can you list more, Robert?

[Dr. Shane]

Everytime we act in a selfish way we are becoming spotted by the world. I understand that. However that concept is so broad that it becomes impractical for many. That is why I listed a few of the common areas where many of us have struggles with the world.

[Robert]

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gina i said:

Can you list more, Robert?

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Using man as his tool, Satan has developed a kingdom (the Bible refers to it as “the kingdom of this world”) that is based entirely on the principle of self and which is in complete opposition and contradiction to the “kingdom of heaven.” Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

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[Ted Oplinger]

Well, Robert, I'll agree to a point...that list needs a touch of refinement.

In and of themselves, some of these things aren't evil or worldly. It's the collecting of them into the world's principles and culture that makes them tools for the world.

In my opinion, it's the participation with/yielding to those principles and the culture of this world - with the focus being upon self, force, division/domination, and manipulation - which reveals an allegiance to the kingdom of this world.

Not to parse your words, Robert...the last items of the list in your quote (education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc.) are quite neutral in and of themselves, and are used by the world culture only to achieve its own ends.

I can only be in complete agreement with the first three...and with several more "-isms" you could include there as well.

Regards all,

Ted

[Robert]

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Ted_Oplinger said:

the last items of the list in your quote (education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc.) are quite neutral in and of themselves, and are used by the world culture only to achieve its own ends.

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They are founded upon the principle of love of self.... According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

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Ted_Oplinger said:

the last items of the list in your quote (education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc.) are quite neutral in and of themselves, and are used by the world culture only to achieve its own ends.

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They are founded upon the principle of love of self.... According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

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**[:"red"] "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much." [/] Luke 16:8-10 KJV **

From what I understand of your teaching, Robert, it appears there is nothing man can do that is not of the lust of the flesh. In a sense I agree with that, for I recognize "good deeds" by man , a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as per;

[:"red"] "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" [/] Colossians 1:27 KJV

[:"red"] "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." [/] Phil 2:13

NASB

...therefore indicating good deeds as of the Divine will, not of man's "better self".

That would explain the Scripture ** above to my satisfaction, however according to your teaching that would place Jesus in the position of counseling man to take part in the lust of the flesh. What is your explanation?

[Robert]

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LifeHiscost said:

...according to your teaching that would place Jesus in the position of counseling man to take part in the lust of the flesh. What is your explanation?

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I do not follow....

[gina i]

So what seperates us from the world?

[olger]

Conversion...

gcw

[gina i]

There's the answer I was looking for

[LifeHiscost]

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olger said:

Conversion...

gcw

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Robert,

Are you able to see the enabling power of God in righteous acts performed through the servant of God after he/she has been converted? And if not, how then is the work of God to be effected, since the body of Christ would have to be termed impotent according to the gospel you preach.

Can you see the following texts as a clue?

[:"red"] "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." [/] Philippians 4:13 KJV

[:"red"] "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible" [/] Matthew 19:26 KJV

Blessings!!

[Robert]

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olger said:

Conversion...

gcw

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No...Christians are still worldly. The principle of "I" is still there....Sure it might not be in wearing jewelry (and hence wanting to be noticed), but it might be that nice car/home. That degree...or one's righteousness. Pride is there...that comes from the world.

A Christian, as he matures, should be less worldly….

Rob

[olger]

"A Christian, as he matures, should be less worldly…."

I can agree with that. That is the essence of the aforementioned Bible passage.

gcw

[Robert]

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LifeHiscost said:

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." [/] Philippians 4:13 KJV

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Look at the context:

Verse 12 I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Paul's talking of contentment, not sinless living....

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"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible" Matthew 19:26 KJV

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Again, context, context:

Mark 10:24 Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

In the book of the law, the Jews were taught that if you obeyed God's law, He would prosper you. So to the Jew a rich man was a good man blessed of God because of his law-obedience. If the rich were failing at entering heaven what hope was there for other men?

EGW: "They had been taught to look upon the rich as the favorites of heaven; worldly power and riches they themselves hoped to receive in the Messiah's kingdom; if the rich were to fail of entering the kingdom, what hope could there be for the rest of men?…." [COL 393]

26 And they were astonished exceedingly, saying unto him, Then who can be saved? 27 Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for all things are possible with God.

It is impossible for men to enter heaven by their so-called goodness. That's the context! The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ accepted through faith.

Rob

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

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LifeHiscost said:

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." [/] Philippians 4:13 KJV

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Look at the context:

Verse 12 I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Paul's talking of contentment, not sinless living....

Quote:

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"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible" Matthew 19:26 KJV

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Again, context, context:

Mark 10:24 Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

In the book of the law, the Jews were taught that if you obeyed God's law, He would prosper you. So to the Jew a rich man was a good man blessed of God because of his law-obedience. If the rich were failing at entering heaven what hope was there for other men?

EGW: "They had been taught to look upon the rich as the favorites of heaven; worldly power and riches they themselves hoped to receive in the Messiah's kingdom; if the rich were to fail of entering the kingdom, what hope could there be for the rest of men?…." [COL 393]

26 And they were astonished exceedingly, saying unto him, Then who can be saved? 27 Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for all things are possible with God.

>>It is impossible for men to enter heaven by their so-called goodness. That's the context! The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ accepted through faith.<<

Rob

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Re: >> << I'm supposing that since the principal of everything being possible with God is used in this particular context above, that in all other contexts it doesn't apply__ that only in the context of entering the kingdom of heaven is everything possible with God. IOW God would be impotent in any other context or, at the very least, slightly debilitated?

And as far as being contented, the principal could only apply under conditions of being well fed or living in want.

As long as those things were the context it would be perfectly proper to live sinfully to whatever extent I were contented with, as long as I was either well fed or not living in want? That conclusion does, of course, allow a great deal of society to ignore the reasonableness of personal sacrifice if it becomes uncomfortable, and one sometimes needs to suffer for the sake of others being first, instead of ourselves.

[:"red"] "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered" [/]

Hebrews 5:8 KJV

[:"red"] "Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice." [/]

Psalm 50:5 KJV

I will have to admit this last is a promise only for those who believe it is still valid. And I'm sure you agree even the promises of the New Covenant are fulfilled to those who believe in them as from the one sovereign God.

[:"red"] "...but, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, even as also they.'

[/] Acts 15:11 YLT

[:"red"] "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." [/] Acts 16:31 KJV

Cheers.

[Robert]

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LifeHiscost said:

IOW God would be impotent in any other context or, at the very least, slightly debilitated?

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The problem isn't with God...it's with our humanity! God cannot work in us without our full consent. Apparently we have a problem...and since God cannot force we "fall short"...very short!

[LifeHiscost]

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Robert said:

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LifeHiscost said:

IOW God would be impotent in any other context or, at the very least, slightly debilitated?

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The problem isn't with God...it's with our humanity! God cannot work in us without our full consent. Apparently we have a problem...and since God cannot force we "fall short"...very short!

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I fully agree with that, Robert. What seems to escape mine and other's ability to convey, is the idea that God is capable as a result of His omniscience, to put within man (the mystery of Godliness) deeds of righteousness(despite man's waywardness) that, when given testimony by man to be strictly a gift of God, reflect from God for the benefit of mankind in general, and the individual in particular.

[:"red"] "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" [/] Colossians 1:27 KJV

The fact seems to be that whenever a poster on this forum wishes to express how God has given the victory over sin in any particular, no matter how slight, they are immediately attacked as being self-righteous and legalistic.

By the way, that is not seen as a characteristic of all posters. And perhaps not by any posters all the time.

If it is impossible to see God as enabling man to perform deeds of righteousness, without the person being accused of praising themselves, how would you suggest man praise God for working out His will in the individual life? Or is it only by righteousness observed in the individual that the kingdom of God, the good news, be proclaimed?

This is only asked to clarify your position, for I believe that under the New Covenant, our Father specifically asks the disciples of Christ to witness by voice proclamation as well as by the life lived.

[:"red"] "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." [/] James 4:7 KJV

[:"red"] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." [/] Matthew 28:19-20 KJV

[:"red"] "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." [/] Revelation 12:10-12 KJV Bold mine LHC

There is no doubt in my mind that not all are called to the same responsibilities in personal activity, to advance the kingdom of God on earth. But if we do not give support to others who strive to do deeds of righteousness, faulty as they may be, and instead throw words of disdain and discouragement, we will of ourselves receive no encouragement from our divine Benefactor.

[:"red"] "And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.

Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel." [/] Mark 5:18-20 KJV

And if we spend our life denigrating others who are proclaiming the fulfillment of the righteousness God has worked out in their lives, we will find ourselves siding with the enemy of souls, who wishes all to fail of victory over sin, to our own detriment.

[:"red"] "Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, " [/] Romans 15:5 NASB

Keep looking up!