Was it the wrong thing to do?

[lazarus]

I recently conducted a hospital worship service with a another chaplain who is gay. We worked on the program together. I discovered that he had a male partner about a week before the service. I have to confess that there was a certain ambivalence in my mind about being part of the service.

Was it the wrong thing to do?

Does God accept the worship of an openly gay person ?

Is it wrong for and SDA to be part of such a service considereing our stance on homosexuality?

Any other general thoughts welcome

[Gregory Matthews]

To whom was your ministry?

If your ministry was to hospital patients, what difference did it make in regard to the gender orientation of the other chaplain?

[olger]

Hi Lazarus: Bless you. Your question is a good one.

Some things to ponder:

What effect will this have on your witness?

Can you speak the truth in love regarding this situation? The Bible says that truth is very important, and it also says to speak it in love.

The truth is, that this lifestyle is Biblically wrong, and there will be consequences in the lives of the fellows you mentioned. These consequences will damage those around them in spite of what our society believes. There is freedom available to people who choose wrong behavior. The solution is to acknowledge our sin and to turn from it. I don't care if it is adultery, theft, murder, or homosexual activity. Jesus came to break all bondage to sin in our lives.

We are called to love such people, and sometimes loving a person requires us to be honest with them. The Bible says to abstain from every appearance of evil.

brother olger

[Nicodema]

Does he live celibately with his partner? It CAN happen, you know... not everyone living with a partner (gay or straight) is "living in sin" (having unmarried sex) ...

... just a thought ...

[Bravus]

...and a corollary to that: is it Lazarus' business to ask about this pastor's sex life? It would be inappropriate for the pastor to ask about Lazarus' sex life, right?

To turn an old cliche on it's head: "love 'em all, let God sort 'em out".

[Gregory Matthews]

I am sometimes asked to go to present subjects to Sunday School classes, and/or to take the Sunday sermon. Sometimes I am asked to talk about SDA history and/or beleifs. The last time I was so asked, I learned that their St. pastor had just come out of the closet, and was going actively homosexual. I presented the subject that I was asked to present. I did not make one reference to homosexuality, as I had not been asked to do so. I took the questions that they asked of me, as they asked them.

The focus of this request to L. was on ministry to people who were attending a hospital service. If L. is asked to present something of God's love, why should L. not do so?

Ths focus was not on the other chaplain. L. clearly had no relationship with that person that were permit him to ask him about his sex life. That chaplain had not given him persmission to do so.

If L. were to ask me to preach in his church, should I grill him to see if there is any secret, major, sin in L's life before I agree to come and preach? If L can do this to the chaplain who asked him to participate, should I not also be able to do such to L, if I am ever asked to work with him in a service.

Note: I once attended a SDA Church where the pastor was "bedding" a number of people to whom he was not married. Should I have told that person that I would not sit on the platform with him, and/or otherwise contribute to his service due to his immorality? I do not think so.

NOTE: God is in charge. God took care of that situation.

[lazarus]

Even though there was some ambivalence I quickly came to the conclusion that it would have been wrong for me to confront him about his sexuality. Would have I confronted another chaplain about a less sensitive issue....drinking, smoking....NO! Well, not because I was about to be involved in a service with him/her.

The service was a community worship service.

To me it was not the time or the forum to engage this individual in a discussion about his sexuality. The spirit was not leading me to to that point.

I see this guy as a friend and there may come a time when my position on his lifesyle may come up. He may already be aware if he knows about SDA's.

In some peoples eyes I should have rebuked the "demon of homosexuality" or refused to do the worship..........I used to be "there", I'm not now.

[olger]

I agree that timing is very important. Sometimes we can ask God to provide opportunities to converse with people about things that they struggle with.

If the oippotunity arises, let us humble ourself, place ourself beneath that person and bear witness to truth in love.

I have helped several people clean up homosexual issues, and (this is interesting) there was an emotional cause underneath each case. People are not born that way. The things that they experience in life can sometimes pave the way for wrong choices.

Thanks for the good thoughts,

olger

[Jeannieb43]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

olger said:

People are not born that way. The things that they experience in life can sometimes pave the way for wrong choices.

olger

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, not exactly. Some homosexuals are born that way. They realize their "difference" very early in life but don't know what it is.

My late husband was a psychoanalyst. He explained it to me that every person is born with some male and some female attributes. We're all on a continuum between male and female. Some people who are born with sexual orientation located at the totally opposite end of the continuum from their bodily characteristics will be homosexual, no chance for them to change. But people who are nearer the middle of the continuum in their sexual orientation may be able to change.

I agree, it's not for us to 'preach' at a gay person. Just be there for him/her if asked. As far as homosexuals leading out in worship events, I have two gay friends who are leaders in their church, and many of my friends who are also in that church have asked them to lead the Sabbath school, to teach the lesson, etc., etc., and they're both very good consecrated Adventist members.

[Derrell M]

Jesus made a point of hanging out, and being seen with despised sinners. He was even in ministry with Judas.

[Derrell M]

Quote:

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In some peoples eyes I should have rebuked the "demon of homosexuality" or refused to do the worship..........I used to be "there", I'm not now.

---

[Dr. Shane]

Considering the Adventist church's position on the Sabbath is it appropriate to participate in a service with a pastor of another denomination that does not recognize the authority of the Fourth Commandment?

What is a greater sin, breaking the Fourth or the Seventh Commandment? Is the Seventh worse only because it involves a person's bedroom habits?

[olger]

Dear Jeannie:

Homosexual activity is a spiritual issue rather than an intellectual one.

There is considerable pressure in our culture to consign the sin to genetics, rather than to the heart in order to rationalize away the guilt. It won't work.

Jesus said whatever was in the heart of a person would manifest itself in three ways.

olger