Whose voice at the baptism?

[8thdaypriest]

John 5:37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form"   (NKJ).

I had always assumed that the voice heard at Jesus' baptism, was that of "the Father".   But here Jesus tells "the Jews" (5:16) that they have never heard the voice of the Father.  

Does this mean that only certain believing persons "heard" the Father speak at the baptism.   Or does it mean "the voice" heard at the baptism, was not actually that of "the Father", but was a created voice, or a filtered voice?  Maybe one of the angels spoke for God, because the voice of God would shake the whole earth? 

Matthew 3:17  "And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 

Luke 3:22 "and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: 'You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased'" (NIV).

On the Mount of Transfiguration:

Luke 9:33   "Then as the men were starting to leave, Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us make three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah" – not knowing what he was saying. 34 As he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 Then a voice came from the cloud, saying, 'This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him!'" (NET)

 

[8thdaypriest]

20 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I would not want to go by "maybes" for this.

To me, there is no question that the Voice heard was that of The Father. There  is only one Being who could claim to have Jesus as a Son; certainly, not angels.

Jesus did make reference to people with selective hearing:

Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? (Mark 8:18)

and of course Jesus also made reference to people who were "blessed" for hearing and accepting His Word: "Mat_13:16  But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear."

 

 

So you think some "heard" the voice at the baptism, and some did not. 

[8thdaypriest]

25 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I would not want to go by "maybes" for this.

To me, there is no question that the Voice heard was that of The Father. There  is only one Being who could claim to have Jesus as a Son; certainly, not angels.

Jesus did make reference to people with selective hearing:

Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? (Mark 8:18)

and of course Jesus also made reference to people who were "blessed" for hearing and accepting His Word: "Mat_13:16  But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear."

 

 

When the prophets spoke, they often scolded the people saying they would not "hear the voice of the Lord".  

To "hear" meant to respond with some action - like repenting.   When the LORD said, "This is my beloved Son.  Hear him."   "Hear him" did not mean just to physically hear - with their ears.  It mean to "hear" with their minds and hearts also. 

I can agree with Jesus,  that the rulers of the Jews had never "heard" the voice of the LORD - not in the spiritual sense of the word. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel said below:

Good one, Rachel.  You are on   target with words of wisdom.

 

To "hear" meant to respond with some action - like repenting.   When the LORD said, "This is my beloved Son.  Hear him."   "Hear him" did not mean just to physically hear - with their ears.  It mean to "hear" with their minds and hearts also.

 

 

 

[phkrause]

4 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So you think some "heard" the voice at the baptism, and some did not. 

I do!! Doesn't Jesus tell us that to understand spiritual things, we need to have spiritual discernment?

[debbym]

To hear the command of God is not the only thing God speaks.  There is a variety of different things You may hear from God.

for example God says,  "You are mine,  I have called you by name."

[debbym]

24 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

 "But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." (Mat 13:16)

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. " (John 5:24)

Jesus pleaded with His Father to open eyes and open ears, so the people would hear and live.

[debbym]

6 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

The "hearing" was connected to the "no condemnation" and to the "blessing"  and to "belief."  At least thats what caught my eye.

there where those who heard and turned away, hearing was not necessarily accepting of the light or the voice of truth.  and those who heard could refuse, or accept and then neglect what they heard, or accept and follow on to more and more.  but the giving of the light was necessary for the work of redemption, and the  finishing of the great controversy to go forward.  Jesus was a savor of life unto life and of death unto death.