Certainty?

[Gregory Matthews]

To what extent should be believe that our beliefs should be subject to change?  See:

https://spectrummagazine.org/article/2017/12/21/false-security-certainty

Certainty, the viewpoint that assumes there are no more legitimate questions about our beliefs, is an ignorant person’s refuge. And willful ignorance ultimately is the parent of fear. We should all have the humility to recognize, or at least consider, that some aspects of our beliefs might need modification or even elimination, as our history has amply demonstrated. And because this is

our church, it is incumbent on all of us to work together to make what we stand for as fully and accurately Christian we can.

 

 

[Kevin H]

We all have things to learn and unlearn. One of the biggest issues is either/or thinking, and related to this is the issue of the oneness of opposites. Much of the problems with our church (and people in general) is using a part of the truth against the rest of the truth.

A couple of examples that I hope won't step on people's toes; In our church history we saw a lot of significance in the dark day of 1798 and the meteor shower of 1833. Bible study also appears to indicate that Jesus did not have in his talk about an astrological event but the sun, moon and stars were the traditional false gods of history.  That in Matt. 24 etc. that the idea is first the shocking news about the temple to Yahweh being destroyed, but instead of that being the end of the worship of Yahweh that it was going to be the falling of these false gods because of the spreading of the gospel.  

When historians look at 1798 and 1833 they find the founding of the great Bible societies and mission societies and the Sunday School movement to raise funds for it. This caused the Gospel to spread in a powerful way that we had not seen since the apostles.

But time is passing by. Mission work has become slower, and we are praying for another great out pouring of God's spirit on the world.

Ok, so which is the fulfillment of Jesus' prediction of the dark sun, red moon and falling stars? Was he talking about how the false gods would fall to the preaching of the apostles in the first century? Was it fulfilled in the dark day of 1798 and the meteor shower of 1833? Was it fulfilled in the rise of the great Bible societies and Mission societies and the Sunday School movement of the late 1700s and early 1800s?  Is it yet to be fulfilled by the out pouring of the Spirit in the days to come? Or do they all fit? Would it be fair to latch on to one or two of these ideas and say this is what the text means to the exclusion of the others?

I believe that these all fit together. That the dark day and the meteor shower was pointing minds to the fulfillment of these prophecies that was being fulfilled  in the rise of the great Bible Societies, Mission Societies, and Sunday School movement to fund these, and the false god's falling as the gospel was being spread in a way that it had not been done since the Apostles. And that we will see another great missionary effort to come.  But too many of our church problems come from breaking apart these fulfillments, latching on one or two of these and using it against the rest.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Kevin H said:

Ok, so which is the fulfillment of Jesus' prediction of the dark sun, red moon and falling stars? Was he talking about how the false gods would fall to the preaching of the apostles in the first century? Was it fulfilled in the dark day of 1798 and the meteor shower of 1833? Was it fulfilled in the rise of the great Bible societies and Mission societies and the Sunday School movement of the late 1700s and early 1800s?  Is it yet to be fulfilled by the out pouring of the Spirit in the days to come? Or do they all fit? Would it be fair to latch on to one or two of these ideas and say this is what the text means to the exclusion of the others?

I don't think the dark day of 1798 was world-wide - only in New England.  I also don't think the meteor shower of 1833 was observed by the entire planet.  While these may have been partial fulfillments or applications of the prophecy, I believe that all of the events discussed in the seals, trumpets, and plagues will see their complete fulfillment in the future.  For example, the celestial disturbances reference in the Olivet discourse and Revelation seem to occur immediately prior to the Second Coming - not hundreds of years before.