SDAs and War

[Gregory Matthews]

In a post titled Why the Bible, TrevorL made a comment that started a conversation that I consider to be both of interest and of value, but went off in a direction other than the direction of the OP in that thread.

So, I am going to transfer that part of the discussion to this thread and welcome others to participate.

The following is the comment by Travor L that began the conversation:

I am not sure of the history of the early SDAs, but their present position is non-violence and non-participation in warfare. Baptists in general on the other hand have participated in warfare, including the Civil War, WW1 and WW2. As there was some link with Baptists and early SDAs, was there a gradual development of their conscientious position? Did some of the early SDAs participate in the Civil War? Baptists and SDAs cannot be equally correct on this aspect.

 

 

Kind regards Trevor

[Gregory Matthews]

Margie responded to "TrevorL with the following:

Good morning Trevor,

I love how a conversation can naturally change directions. I know I’m not Greg, but may I join anyway?

The SDA church grew out of an interdenominational movement and is pretty much linked to many other denominations as well as the Baptists. I would say that the SDAs developed its separatism approach long before the War.  There’s a paper published by Aurora University that speaks to the Millerite separatism, which is a well written paper (see below for the embedded link). 

The SDA Church was formally organized in 1863 when our country was in the throes of its Great War. So there was probably a great deal of conversation among our church membership about non-violence, although the term conscientious objector has not yet become a term. The way our church is structured I don’t see our church as having a formal position about anything until it has been extensively discussed and voted on. So to adequately research and answer your question we need to turn to both the Spirit of Prophecy and the Review and Herald (which I did this morning and most enjoyed the learning, thank you!). 

Ellen White had visions about the Civil War, the first one received before the War started, while she was at the Parkville church on January 12, 1861. Apparently at that time people didn’t believe a war would happen but Mrs. White saw it would. That kicked off a series of visions that showed the nature of the views held by the sabbath keepers toward the war.  Remember there was a draft in place and so Mrs. White spoke to the actions of sabbath keepers in response to an article “The Nation” published in R&H which after a quick Internet search I see was written by her husband James White. It seems to me that while they did not want to join the war, they saw God’s hand in it as well as Satan’s. I suggest you read this directly and let us know your thoughts. 

Resources used:

 

http://www.diggingfortruth.org/article/127/prophecy/spirit-of-prophecy-section/visions-of-ellen-g-white/the-civil-war-vision-1861

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/egwtestimony_civil war.html

https://adventisthistory.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/the-nation-1862-by-james-white/

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

I then posted the folowing:

Trevor L,  

I would agree with your comment at to the probably differences between Islam as practiced in Pakistan and in Afghanistan.  I would agree as that was exactly the point that I was attempting to make.

As a retired Army Chaplain I feel a need to comment on your comments as to SDAs and the military:

The Historical, early SDA position:

*  In the early days of our developing denomination, the government initiated a system by which males could be inducted into military service, but they could be released from that mandatory service by payment of a $300 fee.

*  Our developing denomination generally attempted to raise the $300 fee that released the person from military service.

* There was a 2-fold reason for the attempt to raise that fee:  1)  It was generally believed that military service violated both the commandment not to kill and the Sabbath commandment.  [NOTE:  The Sabbath issue was the same as faced by the Jews in the Intertestamental period.]   2)  Our developing denomination needed the leadership of those males who would have otherwise been forced into military service.     

*  In those early days, while we only existed in the United States, that was an easy situation.  The Government allowed for non-service.

*  The problems arose when in our missionary growth, we expanded into other countries which did not allow for non-participation in military service.

*  An example of this is found in the historical writings of our Church:   Two (2) men who worked in publishing SDA books were called up for required military service by their government.  EGW commented on this loss of their needed services.  But, she then went on to advocate the support that we should give then as a Church while they were doing their duty.  This incident has been a major influence for the SDA denomination today not taking the position that we should prohibit military service.

*  Further, we here in the U.S. may not realize the positon that some of the people have faced in the past.  Serving in a country that I will not name, I once had a male citizen of that country walk into my office.  He removed his shirt and showed me the scars on his back due to the beatings that he had  taken due to the religious position he had taken related to military service for his country.

The present SDA position:

* Three major positions exist today as to military service by our membership:  1)  Many SDA members believe in full service in any capacity with no limitations.  2)  Some of our members reject all military service with no participation at all.  3)  Other members believe in serving in a limited non-combatant capacity.

*  The official position of the SDA Church is two-fold:  1)  The SDA Church (congregation) is to provide pastoral care and support for  their members take any of the three positions that I have listed above.  They are not to be disciplined for taking any of those positions.  2)  It is recommended that SDAs take position # 3, but it is a recommendation and not a requirement.

*  Based upon my experience, in the 20 years that I served,  There have been large numbers of people who while related to the SDA Church, took position # 1.

*  However, growing numbers of people, as I see it, advocate position # 2.

On a personal Basis:

*  I would often have people come to me for advice as to whether or not they  could serve in the military.  I would ask them about their beliefs and understandings of Biblical teachings.  I would tell them that if they held to traditional SDA teachings, they could not serve and maintain those teachings in most positions in the military.

*  I would tell them that the  might be able to serve in a medical position and that they could serve in a chaplain position which did not include serving as a Chaplain's Assistant.

*  I would also tell them that if they held to traditional beliefs it would be harder for them, most of the time, to serve in a Reserve component, than it would be to serve on active duty although I would not recommend that.

*  As to military chaplains:

   1)  All military chaplains serve with the permission of their denomination, which for me was SDA.

   2)  They cannot become a military chaplain absent the permission of their denomination.

   3)  Their denomination has the legal right to remove them from military service, as long as they are not under criminal investigation and are not hospitalized, for any reason and the  individual so removed has no legal recourse outside of their denomination.  Chaplains so removed will likely be removed within a 14 day time-line, which is very quick for the government to act.

4)  The SDA Church has on a number of occasions decided to remove their clergy from the U.S. military.  Yes this has included someone under criminal investigation as the military has some strange laws which might not apply in civilian life.  In some of those cases the SDA Church has reached an agreement with the chaplain involved by which the chaplain resigned and left military service and on other occasions, the SDA Church has used the provisions of law and policy to remove a military chaplain.

5)  My military service includes:  1)  Two (2) years of active duty as an enlisted person, brought in under the draft as a conscientious objector.  2)  Eighteen (18) service as a commissioned officer and a chaplain on active duty.  3)  Additional service as a chaplain in the National Guard and in a Reserve unit.   At all times, except as a drafted enlisted person, I served only with the permission of the SDA Church and the Church had the power to remove me.

Margie:  "I was writing and posting this comment at the same time you posted your comment.  As your was shorter than mine, you got posted first.  In any case, welcome to this discussion.

[Gregory Matthews]

I then posted the following:

The following URLs contain information on the SDA Church and military service.  I list them because I believe that they are of value.  I do not agree with everything that they say, but, I believe that they have something important to say.  E.G.  While I disagree with some of what Dr. Ronald Lawson has said, he has written some material on this subject, which is not in the listed URL and I consider important.

 

https://pacificador99.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/a-brief-history-of-us-sdas-military-service-v2.pdf

http://calltorepent.com/sdas-in-war-detailed-history/

http://fliphtml5.com/cevh/hvfu/basic

http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/MilitaryService.html

[Margie]

28 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The Historical, early SDA position:

*  In the early days of our developing denomination, the government initiated a system by which males could be inducted into military service, but they could be released from that mandatory service by payment of a $300 fee.

*  Our developing denomination generally attempted to raise the $300 fee that released the person from military service.

* There was a 2-fold reason for the attempt to raise that fee:  1)  It was generally believed that military service violated both the commandment not to kill and the Sabbath commandment.  [NOTE:  The Sabbath issue was the same as faced by the Jews in the Intertestamental period.]   2)  Our developing denomination needed the leadership of those males who would have otherwise been forced into military service.     

*  In those early days, while we only existed in the United States, that was an easy situation.  The Government allowed for non-service.

*  The problems arose when in our missionary growth, we expanded into other countries which did not allow for non-participation in military service.

*  An example of this is found in the historical writings of our Church:   Two (2) men who worked in publishing SDA books were called up for required military service by their government.  EGW commented on this loss of their needed services.  But, she then went on to advocate the support that we should give then as a Church while they were doing their duty.  This incident has been a major influence for the SDA denomination today not taking the position that we should prohibit military service.

*  Further, we here in the U.S. may not realize the positon that some of the people have faced in the past.  Serving in a country that I will not name, I once had a male citizen of that country walk into my office.  He removed his shirt and showed me the scars on his back due to the beatings that he had  taken due to the religious position he had taken related to military service for his country.

The present SDA position:

* Three major positions exist today as to military service by our membership:  1)  Many SDA members believe in full service in any capacity with no limitations.  2)  Some of our members reject all military service with no participation at all.  3)  Other members believe in serving in a limited non-combatant capacity.

*  The official position of the SDA Church is two-fold:  1)  The SDA Church (congregation) is to provide pastoral care and support for  their members take any of the three positions that I have listed above.  They are not to be disciplined for taking any of those positions.  2)  It is recommended that SDAs take position # 3, but it is a recommendation and not a requirement.

*  Based upon my experience, in the 20 years that I served,  There have been large numbers of people who while related to the SDA Church, took position # 1.

*  However, growing numbers of people, as I see it, advocate position # 2.

I appreciate this insight. I didn’t run across the “buy-out” amount when I was going through the links I shared in my post.

I find it really helpful in figuring out what God is looking from us in terms of unity by going back in history and see how issues like this impact our church. I like seeing that we as a church reach a consensus together freely of our own wills rather than being instructed by the church leaders. Granted many of us turn to leaders for instruction but ultimately each one of us make our own decisions. And often those decisions vary, as shown in the standpoints Greg listed in the past and present. Surely, to those outside the church our denomination is rife with controversy but there is much value in this exploration of options and learning from our mistakes and norming with each other. Together we study, together we discuss, and together we learn. Along the way are many lessons on how to unite as a single body of believers. This has a greater emphasis on free will rather than a single body of prophets instructing us on requirements to follow.

On another point to which I apologize if it changes the direction of this discussion once again, I find it interesting that Ellen White spoke to the petition  presented by church members to the church in Colorado and how it showed a lack of faith on their part and drew too much unnecessary attention to sabbath keepers. This reminds me of Jesus and His instruction to the leprous man who healed him to be quiet (Mark 1:41-45). 

Perhaps we need to learn more about depending on the Word of God to show us the action He wants from us and trusting that God will fight for us. 

[Gregory Matthews]

FYI:  There have been much materials written both on the SDA denomination on SDA military chaplains and their service to the Country and the development of the U.S. military chaplaincy.  Much of it has been privately published and not widely available.  I am thinking, if I have the time, of putting a list together that will list some of these for further research if you can find them today.

A million years ago I did some writing on this subject  in an academic setting, so it was never publicly available and I am not certain if I even have a copy of what I wrote. 

I will give a brief comment to potentially stimulate your thinking:

*  For many years, the SDA denomination refused to allow SDA clergy to become Federal chaplains under any conditions.

*  We seem to have had  a SDA who became a Federal chaplain without the knowledge of the denomination.  But, that is clouded in its history.

*  The SDA denomination took a well published position that to become a Federal chaplain violated both the U.S. Constitution and the teachings of the Bible.

*  At the end of WW II we had a number of SDA military people who were serving time in prison for crimes related to their religious principles.

*  A group of Army chaplains from the Office of the Army Chaplaincy in the Pentagon requested to meet with SDA leadership, which was granted.

*  Those (non-SDA) chaplains pled with SDA leadership to allow SDA Clergy to become military chaplains.  One of their points was that as chaplains they could intervene in the issues that SDA members faced in serving in the military and potentially keep  them from being convicted to crimes that sent them to prison.  NOTE:  With the help of the Lord, I have been involved in a number such during my time in service.

 *  As a result of that meeting, the General Conference passed a resolution that they would not prohibit SDA clergy from serving in the military and while the denomination would not encourage it, they would allow such.

*  As a result of  this change in policy, three (3) SDA clergy applied and were accepted as military chaplains, for an initial term of three (3) years.  NOTE:  After three years, both the chaplain and the military could decide whether or not the chaplain should continue in the military.

*  Chaplain Mole was one of those and he applied to serve in the U.S. Navy.  The SDA Church was expected to write a letter to the Department of the Navy recommending him for service as a chaplain.  The denomination did that.  However, in its letter it stated that they wanted the Navy to give him such assignments that he would leave after his 3-year term was up.  NOTE:  He stayed until he retired with the rank of Commander.

*  In general, our chaplains have served well and that has been recognized.  Barry Black reached the rank of Rear Admiral (UH) in the Navy.   Two of our Naval chaplains have reached the 1-star rank,  in the Reserves.    Dick Stenbakken  was the first to become a Regular Army Colonel.  I was the first SDA Chaplain to serve in any National Guard unit, and there is a story behind that, as with most of us.

*  Yes, some of our clergy have decided that the military life was not for them, and they have gotten out prior to retirement.  That it to be expected, as the military life is not for everyone.  For a few, a decision has been reached that the SDA denomination would no longer endorse them and they would have to leave serving as SDA clergy.  Again, that is to be expected.

 *  I do not intend to discuss some of what I know as to why the GC has decided to no longer endorse a SDA clergy person.  The bottom line is that such happens among SDA congregational pastors.  But, military life differs from that of civilian live in many ways.  I will give one example:  SDA Chaplain X got into a financial situation that in civilian life would simply have resulted in a civil judgment that ordered him to pay a certain claim.  But, for him, the military consequences were different.  He was undergoing a criminal investigation and faced the potential of a conviction and prison time.  He lost his position both as a military chaplain and as SDA clergy.   As I recall, the military considered that to be enough of a punishment for him and ended the criminal investigation.  Folks, my point is that military life is quite different from civilian life and the consequences of not living to military standards can be severe.

*  But, in any case,  our SDA members should be aware that the Federal chaplaincies are not a place of escape for SDA Clergy.  When necessary, the SDA denomination can remove SDA clergy from Federal positions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Margie listed three (3) Internet sources for information about SDAs and the military.  I appreciate the 2009* work of Jeff Boyd.  I consider it to be quite valuable as an informational source, but not exhaustive.

I will give a couple of additional sources that will supplement his material:

Randall Larsen, Operation Whitecoat, 1954 to 1973  This is a 36 minute documentary DVD that informs as to the SDA Cooperation in a military unit that tested potentiall biologic weapons on humans in an attempt to develop antidotes.  For more information on this DVD and to purchase, see:

http://operationwhitecoatmovie.com/

 

 Terry Benedict, The Conscientious Objector: A True Story of An American Soldier.   This is a DVD documentary Video about Desmond Doss, that was filmed prior to the Hollywood version.  It contains a number of interviews of people who served with Doss, both in training and in combat.  At one time Amazon carried this DVD, but it does not have it today.  You can purchase this video form the Doss website and at:

https://www.adventsource.org/as30/store-productDetails.aspx?id=38193

http://www.desmonddoss.com/

 

Hacksaw Ridge, is the Hollywood  version of the story of Desmond Doss.  I consider it to be substantially accurate, but not 100%.  A few things were changed for the story, but not many.  It is easily available.