Deny Your Faith To A Madman

[Dr. Shane]

What if you were put to the test to deny your faith to a drug cartel member?  Someone kidnapped you and when they discovered you are a Christian, they order you to deny your faith or you will die.

How about a school shooter?  Some crazy kid comes into a school with a gun killing people.  When he discovers you are a Christian he demands you deny your faith or live.  Would you deny your faith?

What about some radical Muslim that kidnaps you and demands you deny your Christian faith or be beheaded?  Do you deny your faith?

The real question here is if denying our faith to a madman is the same as denying our faith to a legitimate civil authority.  The Apostles and martyrs stood before civil authorities and were charged with the crime of heresy.  Taking a stand against civil authorities is clearly the example given to us by the Apostles and martyrs from the Dark Ages.  Are we also called to prove our faith to madmen?

I do not see the two as being the same.  I do not believe God calls men to give up their lives because some bullied teenager has gone crazy and started shooting up a school.  When arrested by the civil authorities and instructed to renounce my faith, I should be willing to be fed to the lions as the saints in Rome were.  I am not convinced denying my faith to a lunatic who doesn't even have the right to ask me to do so, is the same as denying my faith to the civil government.

[Gregory Matthews]

What reason would one have to believe that a radical Islamic, drug cartel member, insane person would allow you to live if you denied your faith?

I do not believe that I could trust that person.

Such a person, in my thinking, might kill me so that I would die after denying my faith in Christ.

[Dr. Shane]

16 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I do not believe that I could trust that person.

Such a person, in my thinking, might kill me so that I would die after denying my faith in Christ.

Interesting point.  It still comes down to doing God's will.  Dying at the hands of a militant Muslim may be more significant and justifiable than dying at the hands of a school shooter.  

I certainly do not think it is as black and white or cut and dry as being tried by the civil authorities is.

 

[Gustave]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:36 PM, Shane said:

What if you were put to the test to deny your faith to a drug cartel member?  Someone kidnapped you and when they discovered you are a Christian, they order you to deny your faith or you will die.

How about a school shooter?  Some crazy kid comes into a school with a gun killing people.  When he discovers you are a Christian he demands you deny your faith or live.  Would you deny your faith?

What about some radical Muslim that kidnaps you and demands you deny your Christian faith or be beheaded?  Do you deny your faith?

The real question here is if denying our faith to a madman is the same as denying our faith to a legitimate civil authority.  The Apostles and martyrs stood before civil authorities and were charged with the crime of heresy.  Taking a stand against civil authorities is clearly the example given to us by the Apostles and martyrs from the Dark Ages.  Are we also called to prove our faith to madmen?

I do not see the two as being the same.  I do not believe God calls men to give up their lives because some bullied teenager has gone crazy and started shooting up a school.  When arrested by the civil authorities and instructed to renounce my faith, I should be willing to be fed to the lions as the saints in Rome were.  I am not convinced denying my faith to a lunatic who doesn't even have the right to ask me to do so, is the same as denying my faith to the civil government.

IF you have the means to defend yourself & your Family you should do so with every ounce of strength in your body. To not do so would be the same as coming home and finding a man raping your wife or daughter and instead of attacking the criminal you get behind him and push down to make sure he's getting the job done right! 

The question seems bizarre to say the least.

[Dr. Shane]

I will give you the background.  There is a Seventh-day Adventist church in Mexico.  One Sabbath a group of masked men came in with guns threatening to kill all that would not deny their faith.  After several members denied their faith the masked men pulled off their masks.  They were all members of the church.  One of them was a deacon and, as a member of the local police force, he had gotten the weapons and permission for this "activity".  The pastor then gave a sermon about how we should be willing to die for our faith.  This was in Mexico just in the past few years where there is a very real drug war taking place.

[B/W Photodude]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I think that pastor needs to reconsider his sermon "object lessons."  What a thoughtless thing to do.  What would he have done if someone in the congregation had a gun and decided to go into defence mode? He would have been arrested if he did that here

If the member that was in the congregation had pulled a gun and killed a couple of them here in this country, no, nothing would have happened to him other than an investigation. There have been multiple situations where someone stopped a massacre by being armed in/near a church. And anyone getting killed would have deserved it for pulling such a stupid stunt in this day & age of mass shootings in churches. What were they thinking in Mexico where violence is even more common with tens of thousands of innocent civilians having been killed by the cartels. (And the blood of these innocent Mexican shooting victims will be required in Judgement Day of all those drug users in this country who are engaging in "victimless" crimes.)

[phkrause]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I think that pastor needs to reconsider his sermon "object lessons."  What a thoughtless thing to do.  What would he have done if someone in the congregation had a gun and decided to go into defence mode? He would have been arrested if he did that here

Exactly!!!! Does sound like the wild wild west again!!