Redemption by David

[Gail]

 

[Gail]

What are your thoughts on the above video?

How do you view the typical Christian take on redemption and how we treat others that have sinned? Is there, as David asks, a statute of limitations as far as actions are concerned?

[Gail]

Typical take on redemption: by this I mean the idea that Christ died for my sins and the sins of the whole world. While I believe this to be true, I feel there is more to it.

I also believe that Christ died to show is God's character. And as the Bible says, God is love. Christ did not defeat the forces of evil by bringing a hammer down. His strength was that He surrendered Himself to the forces of evil. In taking on the condemnation of sin He surrendered self preservation. 

Conquering by force is what mankind does, for good or for bad. His weapons are not carnal, but mighty.

I am thinking that redemption is also a mighty thing. But all too often, we humans are more willing to condemn even acts of long ago. David asks, where do we draw the line? How does God treat us and how does that extend to how we are called to treat others?

[Gail]

3 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Trial by press/media should NEVER be allowed. Thats a good place to draw one line.

Would that not crunch someone's right to free speech?

[Gail]

IOW, you are saying in not these words, that not all can be trusted with freedom of speech, correct?

[Gail]

So, now, let's get back to the topic of redemption. How long should we treat people according to something they did a long time ago?

How long is a suitable length of time to hold people accountable for their actions? Forever?

If you are one with a shady past, how would you like to be handled considering your past?

Just some food for thought...

[Bravus]

Thanks, yes, I think people are different, so a simple formula like '2 years no, 5 years yes' or whatever wouldn't work. It would need to be about sustained evidence of change.

Humans love redemption stories: how many novels and movies involve someone making a mistake or doing something wrong and redeeming themselves?

This might be a slightly different situation than what Gail has in mind, but I think one of the issues around redemption and forgiveness is that Christ redeems and forgives instantly. We call on His blood, and (from a salvation perspective) the sin is as though it never happened.

From a human perspective, though, we need to make amends to those we harmed, and demonstrate over time that we have changed and become new people.

'Works' don't contribute to salvation, but they are very important in seeking redemption from others.

[Gail]

The thoughts that David evoked from me were, how far do I share the mercy and grace that God has shown me toward others? Do I replicate forgiveness the way I receive it?

[phkrause]

Some very interesting questions/ideas Dave. I'm taking your thoughts more to be forgiving someone than giving redemption?? I actually find in this day and age that Christians seem to be less forgiving than in any other time in history, or I should say in my short history of living on this earth!! I do agree that Al Franken should never have given up his seat until all was investigated, which they did have planned to do. What I have found is those that seem more guilty seem more likely not to stand down, but to be more defiant. I also believe that, at least here on earth, we need to pay the consequence's of our actions/choice's!! We should also be allowed to grow as we get older, which to your point does seem not to happen, at least to those that are public leaders, etc. I'm glad we have a God that does allow us to repent and change for the better!! I don't have that same faith that people will be that forgiving!!

[JoeMo]

In the spiritual realm,  the statute of limitations on sinful or evil activities expires upon the sinner's confession and repentance.  In the physical realm, on an individual basis, it ends when people quit holding grudges.  Whether it is Al Franken or Donald Trump, people their "evil deeds" occurred years ago when social norms were different (that doesn't make them right). They should still be forgiven.  How many of us have done things in our past that we pray will never see the light of day?  People who don't forgive others may face a rough time being forgiven in the judgement.

[Gail]

@pkrause 

It involves more than just the act. There is a need for apology or restitution, yes, but spiritually, shame and loss of self-worth and guilt make for despair. Embarrassment and rejection can tear down a person.

[Bravus]

JoeMoe wrote: 

"People who don't forgive others may face a rough time being forgiven in the judgement."

It's an interesting point, isn't it? In the Lord's Prayer we say "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".

Jesus says: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:1-2)

I'm not sure whether it's a causal link: if we forgive, then we are forgiven, if we judge then we are judged. Or is it just a description of how the world is?

Anyway, plenty there to suggest that, if we need forgiveness (and we all do), then we'd better be forgiving too.

 

[Stan]

I began praying ‘The Lord’s Prayer” in the evening and morning. It becomes so real as I age. Turns out EGW dit it at least in the evenings later on in life. 

 

The one about our forgiveness is kinda of big thing to me 

[LifeHiscost]

On 7/23/2018 at 3:51 PM, Gail said:

Would that not crunch someone's right to free speech?

That's where the satanists have recently taken it.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!