Colorado Targeting Christian Baker Again

[bonnie]

https://churchleaders.com/news/331013-masterpiece-cake-this-is-not-a-recording-colorado-targeting-christian-baker-again.html?utm_campaign=onesignal

[JoeMo]

Sick, isn't it?

[Gregory Matthews]

For legal documentation on this see:

https://www.scribd.com/document/386291761/Masterpiece-Cakeshop-Complaint#from_embed?campaign=SkimbitLtd&ad_group=66960X1516589X2a6486c39a51e58846734aa5a55c1f4c&keyword=660149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

 

 

 

[phkrause]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Cake Wars: Round Two

Not sure why, but that link didn't go anywhere for me!

http://religiousliberty.tv/cake-wars-round-ii-colorado-baker-files-lawsuit-to-stop-cake-trolls.html

So I'm posting this link that does work for me!!

[stinsonmarri]

On 8/15/2018 at 6:41 PM, bonnie said:

https://churchleaders.com/news/331013-masterpiece-cake-this-is-not-a-recording-colorado-targeting-christian-baker-again.html?utm_campaign=onesignal

Yes this has got out of hand, but it is the day and time we live in. YAHSHUA said these type of things will happen. I feel that he has his right to choose as well as they do. There are so many other bakeries why pick on him? Let's all pray for him and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead. Every man had right to serve his or her faith.

I know some of you will not like what I am going to say but when you allow a hateful, prejudice, immoral, selfish, person to act the way he is acting then it tells you the time we are living in!!!! Telling people to believe him and not the news, strip people of their security because they are against his actions, humiliate his Attorney General (who I personally do no like what he done also) because he did the right thing recusing himself. Children still without their parents because of hatred. All are immigrants here except the native Indians! He has divided this country and uplift sinful and shameful acts with no remorse, now we can see how this country is become a dark place. If you are not guilty of anything you should be humble and allow the law to prove that you are innocent. So lawless is from the top on down and it has reach us all! Pray people, pray because the Time of Trouble is close by!

Happy Sabbath, pray and be bless!

[JoeMo]

I don't think this thread has anything to do with the Donald.

[Narcah]

I’m very rarely FOR punitive damages against government, but I hope he sues and wins several million. This has got to stop!

[bonnie]

11 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

I know some of you will not like what I am going to say but when you allow a hateful, prejudice, immoral, selfish, person to act the way he is acting then it tells you the time we are living in!!!! 

 

Many say the same concerning Obama. This began long before President Trump took office

[stinsonmarri]

On 8/18/2018 at 11:05 AM, bonnie said:

Many say the same concerning Obama. This began long before President Trump took office

What are the many saying about Obama? How many wives does he have, and he had other women from Playboy and Porno and try to pay them? How many lies did he tell and he colluded with Russia? Name the staff that used tax payers money? You all put down Hillary down about how she used her emails and Comey did the same thing too! No one talk about that until after he was fired. Name all the people who had recordings? All of the Presidents had problem with the news media but name when Obama call them "fake news." Kindly tell me what do you know that a Obama did that he would take people security from them? Have his lawyers look ridiculous, National Security to become a witness and the others like Gates etc? Let's be honest a Black man was elected and many White people who so love THE MOST HIGH don't love their brother. Just because his color is black. I never compare Donald to President Obama they are two different people. Obama send a lot of immigrants back, but he never took their children from them like now? Why a lot of Republican leaving the Party and only his base about 36% believes him?

Blessings!

[bonnie]

On 8/18/2018 at 10:05 AM, bonnie said:

Many say the same concerning Obama. This began long before President Trump took office

A great many in this country felt /feel Obama is dishonest and racist.  However, your recent post hasn't anything to do with as my response didn't either. Personally, I now feel it would have been better to ignore. 

Let's be honest a Black man was elected and many White people who so love THE MOST HIGH don't love their brother. Just because his color is black. 

The above underlined could also read a "black man that claims to love the most high don't love their brother" 

This is a judgment you pass frequently while speaking about or to those you really do not know.  One thing I am extremely grateful for is that the salvation of myself or others does depend on trying to convince you or others that we/they are not racist because we happen to disagree with you. We are only accountable to a much higher power than you. Someone that actually has the divine knowledge to make that statement

This does not involve race, sitting or past president or your opinion of either.  As you correctly said previously .......Every man had right to serve his or her faith.

I find it interesting that when these lawsuits first began christians here and elsewhere questioned the christianity of those that agreed with the bakers and florists. 

 

[CoAspen]

Quote

A great many in this country felt /feel Obama is dishonest and racist.

Sources? Opinions?

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, CoAspen said:

Sources? Opinions?

Sorry, am not going to go thru the time and trouble. Unless you have been living under a rock the last decade you know that Obama was not universally loved and respected.  You also would have read and heard the reasons why.                                          Nor does this topic have anything to do with Obama or Trump. It concerns only the lawsuit against the baker for abiding by his conscience.

[stinsonmarri]

On 8/19/2018 at 3:36 PM, bonnie said:

A great many in this country felt /feel Obama is dishonest and racist.  However, your recent post hasn't anything to do with as my response didn't either. Personally, I now feel it would have been better to ignore. 

Let's be honest a Black man was elected and many White people who so love THE MOST HIGH don't love their brother. Just because his color is black. 

The above underlined could also read a "black man that claims to love the most high don't love their brother" 

"A great many in this country felt /feel Obama is dishonest and racist.  However, your recent post hasn't anything to do with as my response didn't either. Personally, I now feel it would have been better to ignore."

Yes, you want me to ignore something that you brought up. I did not name the person but you named Obama. When Obama left office he had great ratings. So who is this great many people in this country, that feel Obama is dishonest? Racist???? Are you kidding, this is a joke! Give me proof!

"The above underlined could also read a "black man that claims to love the most high don't love their brother" Show me again the act that President Obama who showed he loved THE MOST HIGH, also his wife. That had rainbows of children in their garden, office. When then he lock up innocent children, taking them from their parents. When did he say to White NFL if you kneel you are against USA? I saw him diffuse a situation between a prominent Black Man and White police officer is was shown on the news unless you feel that is "fake news." So kindly provide all of what you are stating please.

This is a judgment you pass frequently while speaking about or to those you really do not know.  One thing I am extremely grateful for is that the salvation of myself or others does depend on trying to convince you or others that we/they are not racist because we happen to disagree with you. We are only accountable to a much higher power than you. Someone that actually has the divine knowledge to make that statement.

You know a hit dog, they say will holler. I never said I knew you or judge you. I am grateful too that all sin will come into light. YAHWEH is THE JUDGE, not man. All have sin and come short of THE GLORY of YAHWEH. Anyone without sin cast the first stone. However, if you see a person who does not want to change, destroys other people because of the color of their skin. How? By taking their children away. Prejudice does not come in one color. However, when you are the majority in some cases it makes it worst. I know there are many who may think someone has their best interest at heart, but they don't. Women and men have been deceived and hurt believing in someone that is not right for centuries. But when a leader who has cause delusion it is the worst. No one can make a person see the problem that is happening now unless they want to. There are so many White people who have played important roles in my life and feels the same way I do. There are some Blacks that don't. I do not hate you or them or even Trump. I hate the actions, especially the ones he  is taking. I pray for us all, because we all need prayer. It is extremely sad to me that what Bible said; "Love will wax cold." 

"This does not involve race, sitting or past president or your opinion of either.  As you correctly said previously .......Every man had right to serve his or her faith. "

And I stand by what I previously said as well as why these hateful things are excelling! When you have a leader acting totally like a dictator and he is totally immoral. I haven't changed, it is wrong!!!! What I said about the Baker's faith, Trump does not have. Trump chooses to do wrong and he strikes out against anyone that shows his true character. Sadly he feed those who chooses to be fed his venom. I cannot change that only THE HOLY SPIRIT can, if that person want the truth.

"I find it interesting that when these lawsuits first began christians here and elsewhere questioned the christianity of those that agreed with the bakers and florists." 

My, my are you judging? If they did question then maybe you should have prayed for them. Did you see me write anything about him to condemn him?  Because I feel that a Muslim owner has the same rights as he does, or Hindu, Atheist, Buddhist etc. The way I witness is to present and not condemn. I have a right to speak out against the President because we all pay taxes and the US government gives me that right. I may have different political views, but moral views as a leader should be question. President Clinton was morally wrong and the Republicans had a field day. Yet this man had wives and affairs and other awful things. I shouldn't say nothing about his leadership? I will always stand up for justice, rightness, freedom of speech, civil rights for all and moral rights. Standing up for moral rights should be by the fruits we bare. I cannot put anyone into the Lake of Fire, that YAHWEH'S job. So many of us will be shock who will make it in and who will not. We all have to work out are own soul salvation. YAHSHUA saves not anyone of us!

Blessings!

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

"A great many in this country felt /feel Obama is dishonest and racist.  However, your recent post hasn't anything to do with as my response didn't either. Personally, I now feel it would have been better to ignore."

Yes, you want me to ignore something that you brought up. I did not name the person but you named Obama. When Obama left office he had great ratings. So who is this great many people in this country, that feel Obama is dishonest? Racist???? Are you kidding, this is a joke! Give me proof!

 

 

This is the topic https://churchleaders.com/news/331013-masterpiece-cake-this-is-not-a-recording-colorado-targeting-christian-baker-again.html?utm_campaign=onesignal. Not Obama or your very thinly disguised attack on Trump, while stressing you didn't name names

No, actually you brought up a topic that didn't have anything to do with the initial post with this and went on.  Certainly not disguising who you were speaking about. . I know some of you will not like what I am going to say but when you allow a hateful, prejudice, immoral, selfish, person to act the way he is acting then it tells you the time we are living in!!!! Telling people to believe him and not the news, 

So you don't like Trump. Your business,I really don't care. Just as it is none of your business that I dislike much about Obama. This topic does not concern either one. If this particular thread happened to concern Obama and whether he was viewed as a racist and other unflattering opinions, your making demands to provide something for you might make a little sense. What I recall Obama saying was He did not know what happened but the PO acted stupidly.  You have a different viewpoint. Keep it I do not care. If at some point you wanted to begin a political thread of  the virtues and wonders of Obama and OP challenges you, your demands might have some merit.

Again this is the topic  https://churchleaders.com/news/331013-masterpiece-cake-this-is-not-a-recording-colorado-targeting-christian-baker-again.html?utm_campaign=onesignal

Quote

This is a judgment you pass frequently while speaking about or to those you really do not know.  One thing I am extremely grateful for is that the salvation of myself or others does depend on trying to convince you or others that we/they are not racist because we happen to disagree with you. We are only accountable to a much higher power than you. Someone that actually has the divine knowledge to make that statement.

You know a hit dog, they say will holler. I never said I knew you or judge you.

I apologize if you believe I said that you knew me or were judging me. I didn't say that. It was meant in a general way. 

However, if you see a person who does not want to change, destroys other people because of the color of their skin. How? By taking their children away. Prejudice does not come in one color. However, when you are the majority in some cases it makes it worst. I know there are many who may think someone has their best interest at heart, but they don't. Women and men have been deceived and hurt believing in someone that is not right for centuries. But when a leader who has cause delusion it is the worst. No one can make a person see the problem that is happening now unless they want to. There are so many White people who have played important roles in my life and feels the same way I do. There are some Blacks that don't. I do not hate you or them or even Trump. I hate the actions, especially the ones he  is taking. I pray for us all, because we all need prayer. 

It is nice that you don't hate me,however if you did that really is your problem to deal with, not mine. Again, many hated some of the actions Obama,Clinton,Bush did as well. So what has any of that to do with this topic?

And I stand by what I previously said as well as why these hateful things are excelling! When you have a leader acting totally like a dictator and he is totally immoral. I haven't changed, it is wrong!!!! What I said about the Baker's faith, Trump does not have. Trump chooses to do wrong and he strikes out against anyone that shows his true character. Sadly he feed those who chooses to be fed his venom. I cannot change that only THE HOLY SPIRIT can, if that person want the truth.

 

As I do. These types of lawsuits I believe really began under Obama so maybe these hateful things are excelling because of Obama. 

"I find it interesting that when these lawsuits first began christians here and elsewhere questioned the christianity of those that agreed with the bakers and florists." 

My, my are you judging? If they did question then maybe you should have prayed for them. Did you see me write anything about him to condemn him?

Sorry, this doesn't even make sense. I didn't judge anyone. I do recall when this first became an issue, many stated how wrong it was to refuse to furnish flowers, photography and cakes. Along the same lines not wanting to  allow men/boys to use the bathroom with girls was considered rather petty. Most of this really became more of an issue under Obama. It seems he was in favor of all, so must be his fault 

 

 

 

  Because I feel that a Muslim owner has the same rights as he does, or Hindu, Atheist, Buddhist etc. The way I witness is to present and not condemn. I have a right to speak out against the President because we all pay taxes and the US government gives me that right. I may have different political views, but moral views as a leader should be question. President Clinton was morally wrong and the Republicans had a field day. Yet this man had wives and affairs and other awful things. I shouldn't say nothing about his leadership? I will always stand up for justice, rightness, freedom of speech, civil rights for all and moral rights. Standing up for moral rights should be by the fruits we bare. I cannot put anyone into the Lake of Fire, that YAHWEH'S job. So many of us will be shock who will make it in and who will not. We all have to work out are own soul salvation. YAHSHUA saves not anyone of us!

3

I will always stand up for justice, rightness, freedom of speech, civil rights for all and moral rights

Great, we all should.  However, I really am not interested in your opinion of Trump where it concerns this baker and what is being done to him. So If you want to continue along the same lines and others are interested in debating whether Trump caused this or not have at it.  This was/is my only interest https://churchleaders.com/news/331013-masterpiece-cake-this-is-not-a-recording-colorado-targeting-christian-baker-again.html?utm_campaign=onesignal . 

Not your political view, not the color of someone's skin, illegal immigration

Quote

 

 

 

 

[stinsonmarri]

20 hours ago, bonnie said:

So you don't like Trump. Your business,I really don't care. Just as it is none of your business that I dislike much about Obama. This topic does not concern either one. If this particular thread happened to concern Obama and whether he was viewed as a racist and other unflattering opinions, your making demands to provide something for you might make a little sense. What I recall Obama saying was He did not know what happened but the PO acted stupidly.  You have a different viewpoint. Keep it I do not care. If at some point you wanted to begin a political thread of  the virtues and wonders of Obama and OP challenges you, your demands might have some merit.

Bonnie: You know the first thing I said was about the Baker and yes I was referring to Trump. Why all the nasty attitude. This is a forum and we all voice how we feel. But it should never be to the point that you are making. You have right to dislike Obama, I never question you on that. What I ask you on the remark of your claim of him being racist and all the other things you accuse him of was to show proof.

Nothing I said about Trump was false and there is proof. Just today his "fixer," admitted to the charges on two account of campaign finance charges beside the other 4 tax and bank charges. Donald just spoke about Manford and said nothing about the campaign finance charges which he gave the order to cover up. He lied and said he had nothing to do with either women. Manford was charge on 8 counts and a mist-trial on 10. He soon will have another trial that is about the Russia interfering with our election. This is still going on and his top security staff made this announcement.

Listen and I will again, say that this discord against the baker and another forum attacking for their religious right has got out of hand. I felt the the reason is because of Trump and what he is doing. No other President had done this and I call him a "fake," president because he has done crooked things to win the election all around which include Russia. But I don't hate him and that's my choice. I hate what he is doing and 125 bipartisan CIA, Intelligent Security people agree. One of the finest Admiral ask for his security to be remove also. He also said that Donald was embarrassment to his children and disgrace to this country. So I can provide evidence on the comments I made.

I am a sinner too, but I have remorse and I have confess and forsaken my sins. There are a lot of things I done that I am a shame of. My mother raise me to be obedient to YAHWEH'S Laws and I turned my back on them. I have returned to them and I am ever grateful and I went to those that I committed sin with and confess openly that I was wrong and have changed. I want to be save and I want the same for you. But, truly I have no hatred in my heart for you or anyone. The Bible says how can we say we love YAHWEH and hate our brothers and sisters of all colors, nationalities, religions, and culture? We can't, we must first present ourselves fruitful and loving, but we must stand and call sin by it right name. I stood up and said Clinton was wrong for what he did; but I was down on the young lady. I realize I was wrong and confess on my Facebook page and I think here as well. If I have hurt you in anyway, I am sorry but I felt that Donald has cause an acceleration to the problems we have today. Now like you said, I do not know you and personally I never was addressing you only him. We both have a right to our choices, but we should never come and attach each other for our views. We should always stand and prove certain allocations we make. But we should never come to the type of statement you made and that is sad to me. So I am putting it to rest, no matter what you say back concerning this I will not respond. I just want to close and ask you to pray for me as I will for you and may we pray for others as well. We all need to continue to grow in grace!

This is what you quote and it is correct:

Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this.

 Quotes by Susan Gottesman

Love and be bless!

[bonnie]

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

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Quote

 

 

: What The Persecution Of Jack Phillips Teaches Us About 'Tolerance'

Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images

ByJAMES GOTTRY

August 20, 2018

 17.2k views

The U.S. Supreme Court decision should have put an end to Colorado’s campaign against cake artist Jack Phillips. But Colorado remains undeterred, and so do some of its most “tolerant” citizens.

During oral arguments for Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commissionin December 2017, Justice Anthony Kennedy declared that “tolerance is essential in a free society.” He added that, by its crusade against Jack and Masterpiece Cakeshop, Colorado had been “neither tolerant nor respectful of Mr. Phillips’ religious beliefs.”

In June, the Supreme Court gave legal effect to these words, condemning Colorado’s “clear and impermissible hostility” toward Jack and his business. The court also chastised the commission for “implying that religious beliefs and persons are less than fully welcome in Colorado’s business community.”

In short, the Supreme Court’s message was this: People like Jack should not be bullied by the government for peacefully living out their religious beliefs.

Colorado apparently didn’t get the message. Tuesday’s lawsuit from Jack Phillips and his Alliance Defending Freedom attorneys revealed as much. The Colorado Civil Rights Division, working in cahoots with an activist Colorado attorney, are harassing Jack again. This time it’s because Jack politely declined a request to make a cake — blue on the outside, pink on the inside — celebrating that attorney’s gender transition from male to female.

Lest you’re tempted to shed a tear for the attorney, keep in mind that the request wasn’t really about the customer; it was all about Jack. After all, the attorney “take great pride” in suing businesses that allegedly “discriminate against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people and serving them their just desserts” (emphasis mine).

No, this latest episode didn’t arise because Jack intolerantly refused to serve a customer, because he didn’t. Jack will serve all people; he just can’t create all cakes. Rather, the second act of the persecution of Jack Phillips began because of a lack of respect and tolerance from Jack’s home state and citizens who deplore his beliefs.

Jack received the request for the transition-celebration cake on June 26, 2017, the same day the media announced that the Supreme Court would hear Masterpiece.The request certainly appears to be a setup. Approximately one month later, Jack learned the attorney had filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Division (which investigates complaints for the Colorado Civil Rights Commission). And while the division and commission have demonstrated their ready willingness to harass Jack, both of these campaigns against Jack have been enabled by the self-appointed enforcers of tolerance.

Not long after this interaction, another strategy for entangling Jack was launched, and it involved a devilish sweet tooth. In September 2017, someone e-mailed Jack and requested a custom cake to celebrate Satan’s birthday. The unidentified individual asked for a cake with red and black icing and “an upside down cross, under the head of Lucifer.” The customer added that the cake was “religious” and reminded Jack that “religion is a protected class.”

Just days later, someone called the shop (and the name on caller ID matched the last name of the attorney who filed the complaint against Jack) asking for a very similar cake: a red and black theme and an image of Satan smoking marijuana.

Jack declined both requests, not because of who requested the cakes, but because he doesn’t make cakes celebrating the devil’s natal day.

Fast forward to June 4, the day that the Supreme Court issued its ruling for Jack in Masterpiece, and Jack received this request in his inbox:

I’m thinking a three-tiered white cake. Cheesecake frosting. And the topper should be a large figure of Satan, licking a 9” black Dildo. I would like the dildo to be an actual working model, that can be turned on before we unveil the cake. I can provide it for you if you don’t have the means to procure one yourself.

Jack declined, and I sincerely hope I don’t need to explain why. A few weeks later, two individuals visited Masterpiece Cakeshop and asked for a custom cake with a pentagram.

 

Granted, Colorado might have its share of citizens with an affinity for devil’s food cake and pot, but where are we as a society when activists request custom cakes featuring Satan licking a sex toy? Business owners are being harassed with outlandish requests, and the government is concerned about the actions of the business owners.

Jack is not the problem. His peaceful exercise of his religious views is not the problem. A free society allows artistic expression, belief, and the peaceful exercise of conscience. And while it is the responsibility of the government to protect our fundamental freedoms, it is our responsibility as citizens to live out the values of respect and tolerance. An individual who understands respect doesn’t demand that Jack Phillips create a cake that violates his beliefs. A person who embraces the value of tolerance doesn’t seek to mandate unity of thought or action.

We can disagree on so many things…if we will simply agree on the principle of freedom.

James Gottry is legal counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom, which represents Jack Phillips and Masterpiece Cakeshop.

 

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[stinsonmarri]

Be bless Bonnie!

[CoAspen]

An Opinion-Cakeshop issues