NCC 'Leaders' Rebuff Two Constituency Motions From Sac Central Church

[Kevin H]

I'm not sure when he started. He left to either the White Estate or Andrews after the 1977-78 school year. Excellent teacher.

[Kevin H]

As  for the nature of Christ, the church argued and studied over it for centuries. Finally they came to the realization that Jesus had his own unique nature and that we cannot say that it was like Adam's before the fall, nor us after the fall. Adam's appetites, desires and passions were naturally under the control of reason. Jesus' appetites, desires and passions were as mixed up as ours and he, like us had to choose moment by moment to place them under the control of reason. Adam before the fall could not get hungry or tired. He would never suffer from things like a cold. Jesus was subject to all of these. 

However, we have a sinful nature, a disposition to think we are for ourselves by esteeming ourselves more highly than our breathern, to serve self, to seek the highest place. A disposition in all of us to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. There is something in us which is selfish. When John tells us not to love the world, he is not talking about the world that starts where our fingertips and tip of our nose ends, but the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the boastful pride of life. An attitude inside of you and me, that encourages selfishness, that wants to make less of the outside world.  Jesus did not have this in the slightest in his nature. His nature was completely and always self sacrificing love.

Several of our Adventist pioneers questioned the trinity. Granted, unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses, we did not make the questioning of the trinity a test of faith. But this questioning of the trinity made our church not think much about the nature of Christ nor much into the nature of the atonement. One natural result of questioning the trinity is that we take one aspect of God and make that God in total. Eastern religions tend to latch on to the role of the Holy Spirit. God working with our subjective experience, God working in us. The problem is that we have 3 voices inside us: The Holy Spirit, Satan and the demonic, and our own thoughts and feelings.  Now God does have any children among the east, however without having the objective revelations of God, they are in danger of not differentiating between the 3 voices, and are in danger of ending up just listening to their feelings, and becoming slaves of our feelings is how Mrs. White understood to be spiritualism.

While in the east they latch on to the Holy Spirit and make him God in total, we in the west tend to latch on to God the Father,  God as power, authority, the ultimate truth as God in  total. Jesus becomes mostly our example of submitting to this power. The Jehovah's Witnesses are still at a place where they are focused on submission. Their headquarters tells them just what to believe and  they are to simply obey. From what I understand they are not even allowed to just open their Bible and read, but that their leaders tell them just what portions of scripture they are allowed to read. So with us we began teaching the law the law the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa. This leads us to the 1888 crisis. Part of Mrs. White's solution to the 1888 crisis was to focus more on the entire trinity as a whole. This lead us to focusing more on Jesus as God, the nature of the atonement, and the nature of Christ. Mrs. White then started to copy the best quotes out there on what had become the traditional understanding of the nature of Christ as pointed out above. She also started quoting from the church councils that affirmed the trinity and the nature of Christ. (those who want us to continue to question the trinity who try to focus on looking for loopholes in her comments to try to argue that she was not trying to teach the trinity, but they are ignorant as to whom she was quoting).  And also the writings of someone, I believe his name was Melville (the name reminds me of Herman Melville's name) who was a strong advocate and explainer of the unique nature of Christ.

Again it's getting late, so more later. But while I am not positive, I believe that Larry Kirkpatrick is a trinitarian, but he has accepted a thread in Adventism which still holds on to the pre 1888 view of seeing Jesus as MOSTLY our example for submission (and here I want to be careful because I am also focused on Jesus as our example of submission. However the entire God head 's nature is a righteousness by faith relationship based on the law of self sacrificing love. All three constantly submit to each other.) But where Jesus is understood to have been our example in that he gained the victory over the sinful nature as an example for us. But we are sinners and lost because we have the sinful nature, the disposition to think that we are for ourselves by esteeming ourselves more highly than others, to think that we are for ourselves by  making less of the outside world. Even if we did not commit acts of sin, and yes we are to get this victory, we are still lost because we have this disposition inside of us. We need to fully depend on the atonement from the one who did not have the slightest taint of selfishness, who did not have the disposition to think he was for himself by esteeming himself above others, who did not think he was for himself by making less of the outside world. More  later.

[phkrause]

On 11/1/2018 at 12:56 AM, Kevin H said:

I'm not sure when he started. He left to either the White Estate or Andrews after the 1977-78 school year. Excellent teacher.

Well than I must have seen him around?? I moved up there to work at the AUC Press in March of '73.

[B/W Photodude]

On October 31, 2018 at 1:53 AM, Kevin H said:

It's late and I'm tired I can write a lot here, however if you could order the George Rice recordings from (they use to be called "American Cassette Ministries") from the White Estate he points this out. Sadly we don't have his classroom lectures as he goes into even deeper study than he does for ACM, but he still does a good job on the ACM lectures.  

They now call themselves "American Christian ministries. https://www.americanchristianministries.org/ 
His lectures are at https://www.americanchristianministries.org/index.php/search-by-speaker?s_name=522

Thanks for the links. Will check out some of the material.