LLU Speaks

[Gregory Matthews]

The following contains material related to the soon comming Annual Council.   It contains video links withe more links comming in teh future.

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2018/loma-linda-university-church-discusses-gcs-compliance-document

I have viewed one of the  1-hour videos.  I will suggest that people on both sides of the issue will disagree on some points.  Perhaps, this is balance?

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Wanderer:  the following quotes you below, with my response in brackets.  

Gregory, thanks for posting this. I noticed that you are posting quite a few topics, with different names but basically focused on the same subject. Looks like a bit of activism going on. (I am not saying thats wrong). But what I am saying is that it actually is, in effect, talking about WO. I recall what you said in a similar topic the other day, but at this point; I cannot agree with your statement that this is not in relation to WO. It most certainly is. Everywhere this subject pops up, so too do the WO proponents. (not saying my opinion one way or the other on WO), and Id have to see a much clearer line of evidence before I could see it any other way. All chatter on the numerous "UNITY" topics you have posted, are closely connected to WO, and so thats what it is about.

[You are correct.  I am posting numerous posts focused on essentially the same subject.  I am doing so as they come from different sources, and/or have some differences in the aspects that they address. Certainly they may be said to have some common relationship to women's ordination.  But, that is not the central issue here.  The actual central issue addressed has caused people on both sides of the female ordination issue to come together.  If you think that the African's who have taken a firm stand against this unity document suggests that Africa supports female ordination, you are simply wrong.  Africa is very strong against women's ordination.  Yet, Africa has raised a powerful voice against the unity document because Africa recognizes it for what  it is.  In short, this Unity document is uniting people on both sides of the ordination issue--GM.]

 

I took the time today to slowly read the GC's compliance document, so called, and I am truly at a loss to how on earth that constitutes any kind of "centralized power play."  I find the document to be very well written; and while I am sure it could be fine-tuned a little; I have failed to see the power grab that you and certain others are claiming exists. The document simply states a procedure for ALL to follow in cases where certain ones claim to represent the Seventh-day Adventist Church, but in reality they do NOT represent the church or speak for the church on an official level.

[Yesterday, I viewed one of the videos posted on the LLU website.  It was a one hour talk by Jon Paulin.  He raised a substantial point that agrees with you, in part, in which he said that the unity document is not, in one area, what it has been portrayed to be.  I am the first to say that he has given me something to think about in this respect.  However, there are issues that remain.  The procedure, as you called it, is considered by many to violate the administrative guidance that EGW gave when she called for the establishment of the Unions.  I agree with this.  In addition, the procedure  also violates denominational policy in its present form.  Again, there are  people on both sides of the female ordination issue that agree with this.  For this procedure to be put in place, present policy should be changed first.  Yes, it should be noted that Jon Paulin did point out that lessons had been learned, and that the unity document, in its present form has corrected,  some procedural issues present in previous versions.  In short, JP was balanced to at least some extent--GM.]

 

My opinion right now; being based on the outrageous and embellished nature of the charges against the GC are coming from people who dont want to be accountable to anyone. HOW else do you suggest that people finally have to embrace accountability for what they do? Or do not do?

[It is true that people on both sides of the issue have made outrageous charges against the other side.  Frankly, in my opinion, you just did some of this yourself when you slurred the other side with the idea that people do not want to be accountable to anyone.  However, there is an important point here.  Who does the unity document attempt to make people accountable to.  Jon Paulin suggests:  1)  That it does not make any person accountable.  2) That the point of accountability is not the GC.  This point, is some aspects was news to me.  If it is news to you, perhaps you should spend some time in viewing the video and considering the point that not one person is made to be accountable by the unity document---GM.]  

 

I have seen this same kind of thing arise many times now, for over 25 years. People want to only do whats right in their own eyes; and thats what this is really about. Certainly, I have found NOTHING in that document that would support the biased charges of "centralized power."

[Again, this type of generalization seems to me to be the outrageous comment that you cited.   Regardless, even if the document does not have the centralization of power that some have claimed, and Jon Paulin supports the idea that it does not,  that does not mean that there is not an element of centralization of power present--GM] 

I suspect there may be a bit of outrage over what I just said. But I remain open to correction, if warranted.

[Wanderer, I can only speak for myself.  I am not going to engage in generalization.  But, speaking for myself, I do not find your post to rise to the level where I would be outraged.  I suggest  again that you view the LLU videos, some of which had not yet been posted yesterday--GM.]

 

[thx4mercy]

"God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority."

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Wanderer, I agree with your above post (but not going to spend all evening trying to figure out how to do a "like" or get the quote down here properly).  But the EGW quote from 9T (above ) can't be stated much clearer than that!  But it seems they just don't care.  S.S. lesson last week showed that the ones that don't follow the "rules" are the ones that cause the dis-unity.