Sunday"s coming,___________________________

[LifeHiscost]

_________________ it's place in last day events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law#United_States

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Kevin H]

Have the same thought as Wanderer. But also think I have an idea as to what LifeHiscost is after and it is a good point, about the role of Sabbath and Sunday in last day events.

Two basic principles to keep in mind here. First the Bible  gives possible  scenarios as to how the world could have ended in different times in history. There is a basic framework, and then applications of that framework. (for a general frame work see in the SDABC "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy") Amos tells us that if there is a major change God will let us know through his prophets.

A second principle is to see that Satan has always built traditions upon these prophecies and scenarios so that God's people "know just what is going to happen" and he has thus far a 100% record of getting God's people to become so secure in our traditions that we miss the boat. God's people knew that things were going to improve in the land and the temple would stand forever and that the Messiah will rule from there. Later Gods people knew that the exile was going to end in a second great exodus lead by the messiah. Later God's people knew that upon return to the land after a lackluster exodus that the house of David would be restored and lead to the Messiah. Later they knew that the Messiah was going to overthrow the powers ruling over Israel and give Israel her independence. Later they knew that Domitian would be the last great antichrist. And today we know that we are going to return to the rule of the Papacy with Sunday laws all over the world and that Sunday laws will be effecting everyone, and that while the worldly governments are enforcing Sunday laws and  threatening to kill us if we don't comply with Sunday laws, we have an even higher more powerful government that is going to enforce the Sabbath and will kill you in eternal hell if you don't comply with the Sabbath.

I was going to say more here, but I think this is a good place to stop and think and discuss.

[Kevin H]

It is the volume that has like Isaiah, Jeremiah and the minor prophets. It is a very important article, and it would be well worth having a Sabbath School lesson on that article. Fortunately at Union Springs Academy we covered it in a Bible class, and at Atlantic Union College the religion and theology students had to read it and do a paper on it every semester, and the non-religion/theology majors still had to read it and do a paper on it for the Bible classes they took.

[Kevin H]

Hey, I thought that I had left this open for more discussion and the sharing of other thoughts, hope people will come and share.

[JoeMo]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:55 PM, Kevin H said:

And today we know that we are going to return to the rule of the Papacy with Sunday laws all over the world and that Sunday laws will be effecting everyone, and that while the worldly governments are enforcing Sunday laws and  threatening to kill us if we don't comply with Sunday laws, we have an even higher more powerful government that is going to enforce the Sabbath and will kill you in eternal hell if you don't comply with the Sabbath.

Only traditional SDA's "know" this.  I personally think the issues will be MUCH larger than this - like "who do you worship (in general) and who do you trust - the gods of this world or the One True God of heaven"?

[Kevin H]

The context is how Satan has always played upon our traditions where we "know just what's going to happen." I was comparing this tradition in Adventism with the way Jews were so sure that the Messiah was going to be the most blessed person ever who was going  to overthrow the Romans.

[Gregory Matthews]

In an effort to stimulate thought, I suggest that Kevin wrote in a  manner that some who do not consider it in depth will misunderstand what he actually wrote.

 

.  

[B/W Photodude]

On December 4, 2018 at 12:25 AM, Kevin H said:

The context is how Satan has always played upon our traditions where we "know just what's going to happen." I was comparing this tradition in Adventism with the way Jews were so sure that the Messiah was going to be the most blessed person ever who was going  to overthrow the Romans.

Many things are written in the Bible that those who do not really know will think they do and get it wrong. This includes even Adventists in the end time. "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:10 Hence, one would be wise to pay attention when Paul wrote, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor 10:12

The issue of the Jews not understanding the Messiah even when He walked among them intrigues me. They totally missed the meaning or what was happening at the first advent. I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood. Not sure if I even understand myself what is happening and am studying intensely to figure it out. Therefore, like the unbelievers in the temple at Jerusalem, when God speaks from heaven in the very end times, only His people will understand and to all the rest it will only sound like thunder. So, during summer storms and peels of thunder think about God speaking and it only sound like gibberish!

(Are you aware that the KJV uses the term "Take heed" 65 times thru the Bible?!)

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood.

I totally agree!  I don't think we will understand until (or maybe even after) the prophecies are fulfilled.  I won't put blinders on an believe only what the Great Controversy (or any other book except the Bible) has to say.  I work at keeping an open mind.

[Gustave]

It’s a play on “Game of Thrones” when they say “winters coming”.

[Gustave]

 

[B/W Photodude]

On 12/5/2018 at 4:22 PM, B/W Photodude said:

I am of the opinion that what should be understood at the second advent will be even more misunderstood.

On 12/5/2018 at 5:26 PM, JoeMo said:

I totally agree!  I don't think we will understand until (or maybe even after) the prophecies are fulfilled.  I won't put blinders on an believe only what the Great Controversy (or any other book except the Bible) has to say.  I work at keeping an open mind.

While I made an allusion to end time prophecies, what I feel is not understood are not the end time prophecies, but issues related to what God wants to do within us and other parts of the whole Gospel message.

I hear all the time about God's grace and nothing more is needed from us, we can never be perfect and will be able to sin to the very moment Jesus returns, perhaps not all the beliefs of the SDA church are true or necessary, or any number of other things that get postulated in this and various other forums.

There are many facets to salvation that I believe will each one fit into a perfect coherent picture of what God wants us to see and know. Some of those pieces include things like:
    The Sanctuary message
    The repeated many times over in the New Testament "to be perfect"
    Having the mind of Christ or having Christ formed within us
    The calling out of a people to be a remnant people and Last Generation Theology (i.e., the 144,000)

I see so many things that get thrown out there, and they frequently lead me to remember this Bible text, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7 Then there is this text, "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Jeremiah 33:3 So God is willing to teach us and bring us into all truth, but some will always stumble in the darkness. Why?

So many strange things are going on in the world and in the church that just amaze me. When much younger, even as a child, it seemed so simple how it would end. But today, it has gotten so convoluted and the fighting in and out of the church amazes me. The fighting and rebellion within the church is even more amazing than what goes in the world, and within the church mirrors the world. In one place in the Old Testament, it spoke of the evil within the children of Israel and noted that the nations around them were amazed at how evil they had become. Given that many texts in Scripture seem to cover many situations, none fit better here than, "Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you." Habakkuk 1:5 I would have had difficulty believing if I saw written down what was to happen in the world and in our church today. So, I still feel that most of the church do not understand what is happening.

 

[B/W Photodude]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Quote

I've one suggestion, start small! For me the Twitter, Facebook space is full of angry, nasty comments, many bordering on libel, because people do not think what they write has any wider effect, but it does. I've started, probably a lost cause, to try and gently point this out especially if a statement seems to be bordering on illegality, one recent example for me, was somebody declaring that Pope Francis was a criminal. But I've been called ignorant, simpleton, criminal, idiot and worse all is people who do not know or care who I or anybody else is. That is sloppy wordage, lazy, uncivil and cheaply discourteous too. Call out the Pope, call out me, anybody, but do it as we should want it done to ourselves, and those we love, with respect so that: "(Y) our kindness should be known to all. The Lord is near". (Phil 4:5) That perhaps is where I can end my reflection, remember the Lord is always very near, especially in the little ones and the stranger! The fire of Christ and the light of the Spirit burn with love not pain! SOURCE

It is true that the social media sites are full of comments with all shades of angry emotions. This is distressing as on both sides of many theological and/or moral debates you have the angry ones filling up the space with such vitriol. Unfortunately, it goes beyond Facebook & Twitter, to even the comment sections of the "SDA" websites. So, somehow, it is a job to keep above the fray sometimes, and not even sure that I do it well myself.

The vitriol is one thing, but do keep in mind that the leaders of the Roman church are pushing for Sunday observance from a number of directions. Not that we need to go out and engage in hand to hand combat over it, but be astute students of history and current events. I even for awhile had a Vatican news app to follow the homilies and news of the Catholic church. It seems to be missing from my phone and just may not be compatible with current operating systems. However, it is not unreasonable to follow them from within their own newssources and not from those spreading the alarms about what the pope is up to today.

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I got a pit in my stomach as soon as I saw the title; because I think this is an area that Adventists do need to re-think some.

It's kinda weird that you would say this, since the Sunday Law (according to SDA literature) will be spearheaded by the antichrist - the papacy.  Yet on another topic you are debating me because I think the idea of the Pope being the little horn needs to be re-thought..  Maybe I am misunderstanding something, or else you arguing both sides of the issue.

[JoeMo]

4 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I did not say that about the Pope.

I didn't say you said this; I said it's what the SDA Church has said for decades.

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:38 PM, JoeMo said:

"who do you worship

I only read to worship the beast and his image and no other religion is allowed, not even Catholicism. Sound just like what Nebuchadnezzar did when he built the image. He didn't even honor his usual pagan idols, just the image. Bible said the lamblike beast will kill anybody who doesn't worship the beast image!!!!!!! I agree with the worship too!

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

35 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Where in the 28 fundamental beliefs would we find this in?

Nowhere in the current version of them; but I can show you LOTS of places in "Great Controversy" where EGW clearly says that. Fundie  18 (The gift of prophecy) states "... we believe it [the Gift of Prophecy] was manifested in the ministry in the ministry of Ellen G. White.  Her writings speak with prophetic authority ...".  If we believe this is true, then we believe the papacy is the beast/antichrist/little horn.  How do we reconcile what EGW says with prophetic authority and at the same time waffle about the papacy being the "bad guy"?

[JoeMo]

45 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

you actually did say it:

I stand corrected.  I should have said our denomination believes.  I didn't mean you specifically when I said that.  Sorry.

[phkrause]

Here's an interesting article I came across today

Trump’s New Attorney General Nominee Wants to Enforce Catholic Law in America

https://amredeemed.com/signs-of-the-end/trumps-new-attorney-general-nominee-wants-to-enforce-catholic-law-in-america/

[phkrause]

Here's another article from around 2 years ago!! Also very interesting

Death To Sabbath Keepers

https://amredeemed.com/bible-study/death-sabbath-keepers

[Gregory Matthews]

phkrause has cited a website that makes some very wild charges and which many would call unsubstantiated.  That website actually is very anti-SDA as the following examples will show.

https://amredeemed.com/signs-of-the-end/proof-the-jesuits-have-infiltrated-the-seventh-day-adventist-church/

The SDA leadership is infiltrated by the Jesuits and you would hear them say they don't know who the beast of revelation 13 is. "The beast is NOT a person", "Babylon is not any system but refers to all uncleanness in the world", " Jesus was loving and we shouldn't hate any church" . These LIES quoted above are among the few deception spread by the infiltrated SDA leadership.

Fore more on what that website thinks of the SDA Church see:

https://amredeemed.com/signs-of-the-end/adventist-church-becoming-another-daughter-rome/