Christ & Christmas

[Gregory Matthews]

See:

https://atoday.org/keeping-christ-in-christmas/

 

[stinsonmarri]

13 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

See:

https://atoday.org/keeping-christ-in-christmas/

 

Pastor Matthew: With all due respect, in the article, it states that we have forgotten what Christmas was to represent. Sir, it was never YAHSHUA'S birthday, and it still is paganism. It is a lie and THE HEAVENLY FATHER says lying is an abomination unto HIM! Why would we observe something that HE said not to observe? Jer. 10:2 clearly says:

Thus saith YAHWEH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

We cannot expect some evil can be corrected to become righteous, it will never happen! We like Israel have accepted paganism and the sad thing WE KNOW IT!

Be bless!

[B/W Photodude]

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

 Sir, it was never YAHSHUA'S birthday, and it still is paganism. It is a lie and THE HEAVENLY FATHER says lying is an abomination unto HIM! Why would we observe something that HE said not to observe?

For most of the people on the earth, come late fall we enter a period of short days and long cold dark nights. Month after month people freeze and are hungry. So, for many many people the Christmas season is like a shining light in the misery of winter. In fact, if it were not for the Christmas season to remind people to be more loving and caring through charitable giving, many many people would be in serious trouble. I would not like to see what life for the poor would be like without a Christmas season.

In the temple services of the desert, once a year they had the Day of Atonement, which symbolized the Investigative Judgement and the end of this age. But it happened every year. Only one time was Jesus born into this world, but we celebrate it every year. As EGW wrote, "... You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible." While she may have been writing about Christmas trees, you can extend it to the entire Christmas season.

So what if at one point in time, December 25 was the birthday of some heathen figure. Like some social justice movements we can say Jesus "took back the day."  All days belong to God anyway. Most people are aware that December 25 is not the birthday of Jesus. So, perhaps it is even a blessing from Heaven that we celebrate it in the dead of winter, after the shortest day of the year and days only get longer and spring is coming. Christmas is a reminder that Spring is coming  like Jesus' life on this earth is a reminder that there is a life after this earth. Guaranteed after the lake of fire, no one will remember the original figure born on December 25. (Sorry, to those who live in the southern hemisphere!)

But some people seem to have this hatred of Christmas, even those who claim to be Christians. People who see the blessing of Christmas are also criticized. And sorry to say, they even make reference to people being liars by saying Jesus was not born on December 25. Truth does not always need to be spot on exact. Jesus told a story of a man in hell, but we know there is no hell (yet!). In fact the Bible says so. So, was Jesus a liar for telling the story of Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham?

So, I will accept the ideas promoted by Martin Luther and Ellen White before I will listen to those who will criticize Christmas for whatever reason they got their shorts in a knot over.

[Gregory Matthews]

So, we might be concerned that we might have some sort of a celebration on a day dedicated to an alleged birthday of  a pagan god?  

Well, every day of the year has been estimated to be dedicated to the birthday of some 1,000,000 pagan gods/goddesses.  And that is only based upon one religion--Hinduism.  

Ah, that tells us not to celebrate on Saturday which has been dedicated to a  Roman god  in addition to the some 1,000,000 Hindu gods and goddesses.  And not your birthday which also has been dedicated to some 1,000,000 Hindu gods/goddesses.

 

NOTE:  My source for my statement about Hinduism is myself.  In Hinduism there are some 360,000,000 gods and goddesses.  In a 365 day year, on the average 1,000,000 would have their birthday on each day of the year.  In addition within the context that Hinduism is a religion with a concept of god that is founded in Kathenotheism. 

[stinsonmarri]

6 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

So, we might be concerned that we might have some sort of a celebration on a day dedicated to an alleged birthday of  a pagan god?  

Well, every day of the year has been estimated to be dedicated to the birthday of some 1,000,000 pagan gods/goddesses.  And that is only based upon one religion--Hinduism.  

Ah, that tells us not to celebrate on Saturday which has been dedicated to a  Roman god  in addition to the some 1,000,000 Hindu gods and goddesses.  And not your birthday which also has been dedicated to some 1,000,000 Hindu gods/goddesses.

 

NOTE:  My source for my statement about Hinduism is myself.  In Hinduism there are some 360,000,000 gods and goddesses.  In a 365 day year, on the average 1,000,000 would have their birthday on each day of the year.  In addition within the context that Hinduism is a religion with a concept of god that is founded in Kathenotheism. 

Dear Pastor Matthew: We can find every excuse in the world concerning paganism. It did not start with Creation. Secondly, YAHSHUA did not give you a date of HIS birth, but the season. Thirdly, if the Bible says do not follow the ways of the pagans, then it would appear that HE knew that man would honor Christmas. This was a warning! Here is the big thing people make the statement of hungry around the world. Every day people go hungry and homeless and this should be an ongoing thing of giving. When I was able to work, I ran a non-profit organization and I provided year round. Yes, I gave out baskets on Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas for the neediest with children. I did not celebrate it, they did not understand what I knew and some, later on, join the church. This is what the Bible says to do to aid the widows, the elderly, the children not one or two months out of the year but all the time. We are just like Israel because we won't follow YAHWEH, instead, just like them, we follow the world

In closing, Samuel came to Saul, who did not follow YAHWEH'S Instruction to destroy everything, including the animals of the Amalek. Saul tells Samuel how he is sacrificing to YAHWEH the best sheep/ram that the people got from the Amalek. Sound like I am hearing the same thing today with Adventist. Here is what Samuel said: 

And Samuel said, Hath YAHWEH as GREAT delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying THE VOICE of YAHWEH? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 1Sa 15:22 

No Scripture is given to celebrate HIS birthday, what was given to remember is HIS death! Scriptures are given over and over not to follow the ways of the heathen. Again, Mithras comes from Persia and Saturnalia from Rome. The Roman's adopted the worship of Mithras with Saturnalia on Dec 25.

I close with all pagan religions have a connection and Christmas is celebrated all over the world even Hindu, Buddhist, and Communist etc. all celebrate the day!

I remember my birthday because I know the date I was born. I do not worship my birthday, I thank YAHWEH for creating me!

Blessings!

[Gregory Matthews]

If you all will excuse me for a bit, while I leave this forum.  I think that I need to check to see if there is a  Jesuit hiding under my bed.  I think I heard some strange noises from that area, recently.

 

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

If you all will excuse me for a bit, while I leave this forum.  I think that I need to check to see if there is a  Jesuit hiding under my bed.  I think I heard some strange noises from that area, recently.

 

I am sorry that you feel that way Pastor. I am not a Jesuit, nor am I hiding under a bed. Sometimes you have to stand alone. Truth is what it is! When YAHSHUA comes then the truth will stand always!

Respectfully, be bless!

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

If you all will excuse me for a bit, while I leave this forum.  I think that I need to check to see if there is a  Jesuit hiding under my bed.  I think I heard some strange noises from that area, recently.

 

Respectful blessings to you Pastor Matthews!

[JoeMo]

I don't have a problem with recognizing Jesus' first coming as a living example for us to follow, as the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and a reinforcement of His promise to return again.  As Gregory Matthews said, it is one of the only times of the year people are openly loving and charitable - both sound Christian practices.  That being said, celebrating Christ's birth at the same time as the winter solstice is pagan in origin.  Whether or not one chooses to celebrate Christmas is up to one's individual conscience - kinda like how one should keep Sabbath.  Sorta the same with Easter.

[B/W Photodude]

5 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

That being said, celebrating Christ's birth at the same time as the winter solstice is pagan in origin.

Actually, there are several days (4) difference.

[B/W Photodude]

22 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

As Gregory Matthews said, it is one of the only times of the year people are openly loving and charitable - both sound Christian practices.

BTW, I brought up the connection with charity and Christmas. And I stand by it and would not be cold hearted enough to suggest people not give in memory of Christmas spirit because it might be a "pagan" day. It is just a reality that needs increase during the winter and people may need a reminder to keep giving more than the rest of the year.

As I already said, all days belong to God and you can go around the calander and find a pagan named day (every day of the week has a pagan name. I suspect we all use them every day. So, are we worshipping pagan gods?), a day of a pagan god's birthday, and even heinous things done by pagans. They should not have "dibs" on every (or any) day of the year! AGAIN, as EGW wrote, "... You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible." We are allowed to celebrate the birth of Jesus on any day of the year we choose and it has worked out how it has.

[Gregory Matthews]

In view of Stinsonmarri's post, I feel a need to clearly say that in no way did I intend to imply that she was a Jesuit hiding under my bed.  As a matter of fact, I am confused as to how either she or any other person could think that I might have implied that she was a Jesuit.

To set put this in context, for any who do not know:  Jesuits are all male.  There is no such thing as a Jesuit female.  My understanding is that Stinsonmarri is a female.  I would never imply otherwise.

Further, I would never consider Stinsonmarri to have any desire to hide under my bed.

[Gregory Matthews]

To  be clear:  If my wife knew that a female was hiding under my bed, my wife would chase the female away.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

if someone thinks Christmas (Christ's Mass) is pagan and refuses to celebrate the holiday for that reason, that's okay.  But the truth is, most pagans (and I'm thinking of the witches and other neopagans, along with Druidic and Celtic factions, rather than centuries old-established non-christian religions) aren't particularly impressed with Christmas.  The day has no relevance in their sacred calendar (and never has), contrary to what many Christian writers have tried to espouse.  The Winter Solstice (Yule) was the important day... and it's *never* on Dec 25th.

So many Christians get so worked up and fearful of "touching" anything that could possibly be conceived as "pagan" — and end up sounding the false alarm.   Let's be thankful for a day when most of the Christian world remembers the Christ Child's birth, and stops for a bit to think good thoughts.

But as I wrote first, if someone doesn't want to celebrate Christmas, fine.  But don't steal the joy from others who truly get a blessing from the day...

[Kevin H]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 10:46 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Pastor Matthew: With all due respect, in the article, it states that we have forgotten what Christmas was to represent. Sir, it was never YAHSHUA'S birthday, and it still is paganism. It is a lie and THE HEAVENLY FATHER says lying is an abomination unto HIM! Why would we observe something that HE said not to observe? Jer. 10:2 clearly says:

Thus saith YAHWEH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

We cannot expect some evil can be corrected to become righteous, it will never happen! We like Israel have accepted paganism and the sad thing WE KNOW IT!

Be bless!

How did December 25 Become Christmas?: The tradition is that the pagans were keeping December 25 from Babylon and that Christians started to say that Jesus' birthday was December 25 starting in the fourth century AD after Constantine made Christianity a legal religion and it was good to take in the Pagans by taking their holiday and making it the birthday of Jesus. I was taught this, we find it in most books, articles , documentaries and sermons.

This understanding came from scholars studying the best material available to them a few hundred years ago. However, there have been more discoveries made that those scholars did not have available. We need to update our information. The problem from the story we have all grown up with and have been taught is that there are some fairly new historical discoveries. I just learned about it for the first time in the journal "Bible Review" (it was a sister journal to Biblical Archaeology Review but now they are again just one journal) in either the year 2001, 2002 or 2003 in the November-December edition. Since then there have been a few articles in Biblical Archaeology Review that I've seen, and on some of the newer programs on the history channel referring to this and have been starting to hear it in sermons and a short article about it in either the Adventist Review or one of our other papers. So if you look up the December issues of Bible Reviews in the early 2000s and recent years of the Biblical Archaeology Review you can study this information for yourself.

We now know that Christians were saying that December 25 was Jesus birthday starting in the third century, 100 years earlier than we thought. And it was done 100 years before Constantine, by people who wanted nothing to do with Paganism and who were hiding from Pagans in the Catacombs.

Then what makes it more complicated was in the second century, 200 years prior to when Christians were supposed to have started to see December 25 as the birth of Jesus, the church has the feast of the Annunciation (where the Angel told Mary that she was going to be Jesus' mother) every year at Passover. The date of the feast was different each year originally depending on when Passover was. Then one year the church changed from the Jewish calendar to the Roman Calendar. That year Passover fell on March 25. The church started to celebrate the feast on March 25 every year thereafter. What is 9 months after March 25?

These events were not related to wanting to appeal to the Pagans and the Pagan feasts. In fact some studies have suggested that the evidence is that while the pagans had different holidays that fell in approximately this time frame, that there was nothing special about December 25 until the fourth century and that the Pagans may have taken it from the Christians. But that has more room for debate.

Anyway, the current evidence is that it came from taking over a Jewish tradition. During the intertestamental period the Rabbis were saying to expect good things at Passover. A number began teaching that it was Passover when Isaac was born. But others were teaching that it was Passover when the 3 men came to Abraham, two went on to Sodom and Gomorrah and the third, who turned out to be the Lord, told Abraham and Sarah that at the appointed time Sarah would give birth. Thus that Sarah got pregnant with Isaac at Passover and that he was born 9 months later. (Guess when that would place Isaac's birth?). Then they were also saying that it was on another Passover, the anniversary of either Isaac being conceived or the anniversary of his birth that Abraham took Isaac to sacrifice him but God provided the substitute.

In the second century AD (200 years before Constantine) the church and synagogue split into two religions. This was a very sad time in the history of God’s people. Like a divorce people on both sides were hurt and would lash out to cause pain to people on the other side. Frankly I like the idea that we got this from the pagans better than the fact that it came from this sad time in history. One of the things the church was saying in it’s lashing out at the Jews was that Christians were better than Jews because Isaac was merely a type of Jesus while Jesus was the better antitype.

Church leaders drew in the second century AD drew parallels that said that as the Angels and the Lord visited Sarah and Abraham that Passover day and announced Sarah's pregnancy and Sarah gave birth to Isaac 9 months later. So the angel visited Mary and the Lord entered Mary's womb on a Passover day and Jesus was born 9 months later.

Thus with the feast of the Annunciation use to be first every Passover and then changed to March 25 and the events surrounding the church-synagogue split and the Jewish tradition on Passover and Isaac is indication that we got December 25 from the Jews and not the pagans. (Note: That year the rabbis and synagogues in Greece said that Passover was April 6, and they changed from celebrating the feast of the Annunciation every Passover to every April 6 and this affected on how some eastern churches celebrate Christmas on January 6).

Now, we most likely have the wrong date, however we do have the correct event! And also this is the same season as Hanukkah that John connects to the raising of Lazarus, thus focusing on the importance of enjoying our loved ones and to have hope that when our loved ones die that death is only an interruption and that one day we can be reunited with our loved ones and never ever part again!

[Kevin H]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 10:46 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Thus saith YAHWEH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

However we have misunderstood this.

The Bible gives several feasts, most of them were given by Moses for feasts and fast such as Passover and Day of Atonement etc. These celebrations were related to the agricultural cycle of the land. They were celebrated by the pagan Canaanites centuries before Abraham was born. They were the important days in the worship of the Baal religion. The Bible takes these very days and kept the less objectionable parts of their customs but removes the orgies and the idea that you needed to unite your life force to help Baal and the gods of life, and change the focus to rest in God being able to do it all by himself without your works to help and to focus on what God does for us. The Bible tells the Hebrews what they can and what they cannot do on these days. As we read this carefully it should not come to be a big suprise that the lists of dos and don'ts for these feasts came from the pagan celebration where they did both what the Bible commands the Hebrews to do but they also did what the Bible commands the Hebrews not to do.

The Bible also gives us other guidelines that can give us guidance on how to deal with say Christmas:　

Later we find the events of Queen Esther which became the feast of Purim. So here we see the Bible addition to itself additional feasts for events worth celebrating.

We also have the feast of Hanukkah. You cannot find Hanukkah in the Old Testament. Yet in the New Testament Jesus is celebrating this non-Biblical feast and adds to the celebration the focus on enjoying and appreciating our beloved friends and family and he placed this as the setting for his greatest miracle.

While we don't find Christmas in the Bible, we find guidelines that tell us how to relate to Christmas. Seventh-day Adventist follow these guidelines and thus accept Christmas, although volunteer since the Bible does not command us to keep it we do not command people to keep it.

[Kevin H]

We don't know what day Jesus was born. Maybe he was born December 25, probably he wasn't.  I've come across 3 times that have been offered. I have to admit I don't really understand all of the arguments for these 3 possibilities, but want to share here and if you are interested you can probably look these up.  

Some give evidence that he might have been born during the feast of Tabernacles, and I have to admit this is where I sort of lean, but it's more the reputation of some of the scholars who suggest this view than my understanding of their reasoning itself.

Others argue for it to be in the spring. Some say that shepherds would not keep their sheep in the field in cold weather, but the weather around Bethlehem has large variences year after year. Sometimes winter is cold and damp, other times it is much more temperate and somewhat warm. Also  sheep for the temple would be kept in the fields of Bethlehem all year round. One point that interestes me in this argument is that Jesus celebrated his Bar Mitzvah at Passover in the temple.

The third argument that I've come across is that apperently someone has figured out that when the priests of Zechariah's two week rotation would always occurred over the Day of Atonement  and thus that it was the day of Atonement when the Angel appeared to Zechariah and thus the angel appeared to Mary 6 months later, making it Passover which could place his birth around this time of the year. But I've only heard this view from more conservative evangelicals and not from anyone who I recognize as a respected Bible scholar.

I want to clearify that while I'm open to any of these three suggestions being correct, The way we actually got December 25 is not based on the above arguments, nor was it based on paganism, but was based on the two  intertestamental Jewish traditions. that I posted earlier this evening. So I don't believe that Jesus was born on December 25.

[Gregory Matthews]

Kevin, I appreciate very much the insight that you regularly bring to discussions in this forum.

 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

BTW, I brought up the connection with charity and Christmas.

I stand corrected.  At any rate, I appreciate the light that you, Gregory, and Kevin have shined on this subject.

[Gregory Matthews]

My  wife sometimes tells me that I have a dry sense of humor that people sometimes do not understand.

Regardless.  it has been a very long time since I have been able to laugh as much as I am doing.

Thank you, for contributing to my day.

 

[B/W Photodude]

Christmas in the early to mid SDA church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf6EXbldFCw

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/27/2018 at 7:12 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Kevin, I appreciate very much the insight that you regularly bring to discussions in this forum.

 

THREE PARTS: PART ONE

It took some time to respond to the comments and excuses made. My heart was saddened and heavy by the people who I truly admire and respect on this forum. But I must stand firm to my conscience regardless of the scorn, mockery, and contempt that I may face. It is not bravery, but instead honesty and prayers of faith that truth can make a difference in the sincere heart.

It is true that paganism has covered each day of the entire world, since the spreading of humanity. Yet, YAHWEH truth remained, through the storms of darkness and Israel also, was given a called to preach the Everlasting Gospel. Instead, after making a Covenant with YAHWEH, forty days later they had succumbed to the sin and the lust of paganism.

The same thing is offered to humanity today, time again THE ALMIGHTY ONES reach out THEIR love and mercy, looking for those who will choose to follow truth over darkness. Justice and the love of truth have evaporated from the people of THE MOST HIGH. Customs, traditions, and paganism are accepted, and those who oppose are ridicule that takes the stand for truth. YAHWEH chosen ones are just a few, as paganism engulfs the world. Each and everyone must choose and the presentation must be presented. Remember it’s only a presentation to show a little in-depth the history of YAHWEH’S vs. Paganism and then choose this day the choice of what is true worship!

 EGW who I respect as a messenger warned about the result of Nimrod’s Babylon:

The Babel builders had indulged the spirit of murmuring against God. Instead of gratefully remembering His mercy to Adam and His gracious Covenant with Noah, they had complained of HIS severity in expelling the first pair from Eden and destroying the world by a flood. But while they murmured against God as arbitrary and severe, they were accepting the rule of the cruelest of tyrants. Satan was seeking to bring contempt upon the SACRIFICIAL OFFERINGS that prefigured the death of Christ; and as the minds of the people were darkened by idolatry, he led them to COUNTERFEIT these offerings and sacrifice their own children upon the altars of their gods. As men turned away from God, the divine attributes-justice, purity, and love-were supplanted by oppression, violence brutality. . . Had they gone unchecked, they would have demoralized them in its infancy. Their confederacy was founded in rebellion; a kingdom established for self-exaltation, but in which God was to have no rule or honor. Had this confederacy been permitted, a mighty power would have borne sway to banish righteousness-and with it peace, happiness, and security-from the earth. FOR THE DIVINE STATUES, WHICH ARE "HOLY AND JUST AND GOOD" (Romans 7:12), men were endeavoring to substitute LAWS to suits the purpose of their own selfish and cruel hearts. PP p. 122, 123

Let me say this with kindness, we can make every reason to celebrate days that Satan set up to oppose the Holy Convocation days. As I stated before these Holy days were given in Creation by THE CREATOR:

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, ((NIV))

Then God commanded, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals begin; (GNT)

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the sky. These lights will separate the days from the nights. They will be used for signs to show when special meetings[a] begin and to show the days and years. (ERV)

And ELOHIYM said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years, (TS2009)

 The above versions reveal the truth concerning the Paleo Hebrew word that is written: “mô‛êd or  mô‛âdâh.” The Paleo Hebrew root word it comes from is “yaw-ad',” and both means, “Appointed Time, and Set Time to meet.” The 14^th verse is YAHWEH’S Calendar. This is a Statute Command of YAHWEH that man tried to change using the English word “season.”

Season (n.):c. 1300, "a period of the year," with reference to weather or work, also "proper time, suitable occasion," from Old French seison, also saison "season, date; right moment, appropriate time" (Modern French saison) "a sowing, planting," from Latin sationem (nominative satio) "a sowing, planting," noun of action from past participle stem of serere "to sow" (from PIE root *sē- "to sow").

The Rabbinical Pharisees’ has added some "traditional" celebrations, which were written in the books of Esther, and from the history books of 1 and 2 Maccabees. Hanukkah and Purim are both post-Mosaic (Purim described in the Book of Esther, and Hanukkah in the Talmud), so they are known as holidays of rabbinic, rather than "biblical" force. Additionally, when they were instituted, they allowed people to work. These laws are from the rabbinic origin and are called d'rabbanan, from our rabbis. They are ordered to be binding by the rabbis' authority to make them equal and rooted in the Torah or the first five books of Moses known as the Law. The Text they used is Deut 19:17, to claim their authority. The rabbis scripted these various blessings (the Berachot) of praise and gratitude as their rightful authority over YAHWEH.

Here is the actual Berachot that is said on Hanukah and Purim:

Blessed are You, Lord, our G-d, and King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to kindle the Hanukkah lights.

Blessed are You, Lord, our G-d, King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to read the mĕgillāh, meaning "scroll" or "volume."

What the Rabbis fail to realize in Deut 19:17 YAHWEH came first then the priest, then the judges. The Rabbinical school of thought did not exist until after the Babylonian exile. They also forgot

Ye shall not add unto THE WORD which I Command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of YAHWEH your ELOHIYM, which I Command you. Deut 4:2

The Hebrews had already turned their backs on YAHWEH, they were caught into paganism already. It was the very reason they were captured. It appears that no one ever thinks that only the four Hebrew boys did not bow their knees to the idol that Nebuchadnezzar built! The rest of Israel bowed down to the idol. It is not a wonder that the Rabbinic School that was started in Babylon adapted many of the pagan customs and rituals into their program. By the time YAHSHUA came on the scene, more pagan customs were adopted. Can’t see why YAHSHUA stated that they were worshiping and teachings traditions and doctrines of men! Again, I say NO, HE would never go against HIS FATHER Statutes! Yes, even today the Jews also celebrate Christmas just like SDA! Creation and the Law need to be revisited!

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

Just now, stinsonmarri said:

Kevin, I appreciate very much the insight that you regularly bring to discussions in this forum.

PART TWO

When the earth was first created, it did not rain or have various climates. It had one continuous climate and dew came up from the ground. When the flood came the earth moved from its original position causing it to move in further rotation around the Sun. While orbiting the sun, with that amount of water cause the earth to bring about an orbital change very quickly. The earth now loops further distance from the sun, this increasing distance causes an effect longer orbit time. The earth eventually settling into its current orbit but without devastating effect upon the earth surface. The flood dumped a load of water from the atmosphere onto the crust of the earth which would have cooled the earth down causing it to become stiff. The earth distance from the sun reshaped the surface of the earth, spawning massive volcanoes and earthquakes that dwarf anything observed in modern times. Such a tremendous catastrophe would have radically altered the earth’s climate, resulting in an Ice Age.

Gen 1:9, 10; 2:10 states clearly that the water was gathered into one place and called it seas. This large basin of water is the River in the Garden of Eden that branched off into four Rivers that the divided the earth continents. The disruption of the earth land mass with water and the distance from the sun caused massive Teutonic plates around the earth. The land mass that was upon the earth was forced down, massive rocks spewed out, causing ragged mountains. Water that came down from the heavens that surrounded the earth, plus the waters from below settled and turned into the oceans, seas, and lakes we have today. Finally in Gen 10:25 during the time of Peleg the earth became divided. Most likely meteors hit the earth or massive volcanoes erupted splitting the land mass apart.

Why did I provide this? I provided it to show the working of sin and YAHWEH told Noah that season would begin due to what happened above:

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. Gen 8:22 

So why was the truth of the Calendar and the Appointed Set Times covered up? To oppose YAHWEH’S Statutes of Time Commands. The plan was to change YAHWEH'S Plan of Worship. Satan found the right man after the flood to formed the most powerful religion systems that would stretch to the end of time. Satan knew that YAHWEH would spread man over the earth and boy he was prepared. Nimrod had brought sin and darkness to another level known as paganism. Nimrod, like Satan, was highly intelligent and could persuade the masses. If only he could have stood for YAHWEH, with his intellect and capabilities! Sad, he allowed anger and rage of the difference the earth had become, and he plotted to out-right challenge, True Worship against the evil paganistic worship, he received from Satan. The plot thickens!

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

Just now, stinsonmarri said:

Kevin, I appreciate very much the insight that you regularly bring to discussions in this forum.

PART THREE

In Ezekiel, you find the children of Israel praying to the sun and worshiping Tammuz. Eze 8:13-16 The actual truth of worship started in Babylon, which is accurate, but it begins with Nimrod. The empire of Nimrod after the flood started false worship. The truth about people in the land of Shinar brought such a reproach that YAHWEH had to come down. YAHWEH did not come down in the flood, it was announced to Noah. When the people were dispersed around the world, a part of the belief system of Nimrod went with them. The story of Gilgamesh, Anshur/ Ashur/, Adrammelech, Osiris/ Ra, Kish, Awondo, and Sūryaprabha these are just to name a few of many gods and goddess that were worshiped. Baal, Brahm, and Zeus were to be identified with THE MOST HIGH. Eko, Deva, and Trimurtti, later Brahma, Vishnu, and Seva were known as one god, three forms or persons as the trinity godhead that the Hindu taught thousands of years ago. The trinity triangle concept is nothing new that also stretches back after the confounding of the languages. In Japan, the godhead/trinity was San, Pao, and Fuh, however, all pagan tradition and myths lead back to Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis:

The existence of a sole and omnipotent Deity, who created all things, seems to have been the universal belief; and tradition taught men the same notions on this subject, which, in later times, have been adopted by all civilized nations. Ancient Egyptians, by Sir J. Gardner Wilkinson

 Then we come to the mother and child that started in the Babylon tradition that became the popular worship throughout the world. The goddess mother and her child of Babylon named Isis with her son Horus was worshipped also GAIA and Zeus by Greece and Rome. In Asia Cybele and Deoius; Belus and Beltis found in ancient Nineveh. The worship of the queen of heaven also became very adored in ancient time along with the mother and child. The worship of Ishtar (Isis - Astarte or Ashtaroth) is how we get Easter today. Satan, again, had humanity to focus and to recognize and celebrate the fact that when Spring comes, nature comes back alive after the long cold winter. In Greek mythology, Isis was known as Aphrodite and her husband was Adonis or Dumuzid the Shepherd (actually Tammuz her son and husband), incest was just as common a practice in the ancient world. Isis most prominent symbols included the lion and the eight-pointed star. Isis was the goddess that brings infertility; so the truth about the Holy Convocation of Unleavened Bread and the promise, through the passover supper of the soon coming advent of the True MESSIAH, would be forgotten by Israel! It worked because they adopted the pagan cultures and worship of the world!

Finally, the Winter Solstice December 22 – 25, the birthday of the false messiah’s stories that once again, started with Nimrod. The traditional myth claimed that Nimrod, known as the sun god, actually he died, so the lied was spread that he became the sun. Nimrod’s the sun, rays of light implanted his seed into his wife, Semiramis is now a widow, and his rays impregnate her. The child that Semiramis birth was called Tammuz. If you know the story about Semiramis, she was the high priestess in the most sexual temple services of pagan worship. She was a harlot and she selected young virgin women, to practice fornication, with men at the temple that Nimrod built. She is the first woman known, as the “mother of harlots and the queen of heaven.” Jer 7:18; 44:15-18 The Egyptians named her Ishtar, and her son became the son of the sun god. Nimrod was killed, the story goes by lions that ripped him apart. Semiramis became pregnant after his death and concocted this story with the aid of Satan. The reason is simple, he reads the Bible and tremble and makes it his business to attempt to change the events and the truth. The antediluvian world, the Bible states were continually evil, but the evil and darkness became even worst after the flood. It is the reason that YAHWEH had to separate the masses but the evil pagan story was not forgotten, changed base on culture but it all pointed back to the original myth or lie!

Now Tammuz was responsible for bringing light into the world and to fight the darkness. The symbol of “the son of the lord Baal,” in the pagan religion of Babylon was a cross.  It is known in ancient time as the cross of Tammuz, and the cross was seen worn on the breastplates of priests and warriors alike and on the headdresses,  in honor of Tammuz. The cross always represented “T” in Tammuz and his symbol “X.”  The symbol of the cross is clearly related to pagan heathenism, scores of crosses have been found by archaeologists, connecting it to pagan worship and practices from the dawn of man's civilization. Various objects, dating for centuries, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia, and Egypt have all yielded numberless examples. The swastika or fylfot, also called "Gammadion" owing to its form being that of four Greek capital letters gamma G placed together. The tau cross is a common Egyptian device, in an Egyptian hieroglyphics, it is read as the symbol of life or the ankh; a tau cross surmounted by a loop and known as crux ansata.

The celebrations of Tammuz in March-April marks the death of the god, the weeping is followed by a procession out into the desert where it is claimed that he was slain.

The English word “cross” in Greek is the word “stauros,” and is defined as simply meaning a "stake."

The word stauros comes from the verb ἵστημι (histēmi: “straighten up”, “stand”), which in turn comes from the Proto-Indo-European root *steh2-u- “pole”, related to the root *steh2– “to stand, to set” (the same root is found in German Stern, or Stamm, the English “stand,” the Spanish word estaca, the Portuguese word estaca, the Polish stać, the Italian stare, of similar meanings). Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon: σταυρός.

in Greek: Xylon (ξύλον) means wood (a live tree, timber or an object constructed of wood).

In other words, records will show that YAHSHUA did not die on two pieces of wood shaped to look like a “T or an X!”

Gunnar Samuelsson, an evangelical preacher, and theologian says he spent three years combing thousands of ancient texts to research his recently completed 400-page doctoral thesis "Crucifixion in Antiquity. Samuelsson devoutly believes the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, but says for generations people have misinterpreted and mistranslated the Greek word "stauros" to mean crucifix when really the term just means a suspension device, which might have been anything such as a "pole or a tree trunk." The earliest versions of the New Testament were written in Greek.

What he discovered, he said, "came as a shock." While there were numerous references to "suspension devices" used for executions at the time of Christ's death, he could find no explicit references to the classic T-shaped cross.

"There is no distinct punishment called 'crucifixion,' no distinct punishment device called a 'crucifix' anywhere mentioned in any of the ancient texts including the Gospels," he told ABCNews.com. By RUSSELL GOLDMAN

Deut 21:23  gives the English word “hang,” in Hebrew is “tâlâh,” which actually mean to suspend.

Tammuz, the boy child of Babylon would not be forgotten because YAHWEH confounded the language of humanity. All cultures took with them the traditional story but made it into their own tradition. All of the known sun-deities were 'born' on December the 25th, these include Mithras, Krishna (Vishnu), and Osiris, Hercules, Dionysus (Bacchus), Tammuz, Indra, Buddha as well as the Scandinavian goddesses. Horus was born during the Egyptian season of Khoiak, which is between October and November In Greece, Tammuz is Eros, the son and lover of Aphrodite Cupid is a Roman name (also called Amor) associated with his lover Venus. Venus and Cupid were known as the god and goddess of love whose stories that were known by many other names all over the world. In Babylon they were Semiramis and Tammuz, in Egypt they were Isis and Osiris. In Phoenicia they were Ashteroth and Baal, in Greece they were Aphrodite and Adonis (Eros), and in Iceland, they were Frigga and Balder. Even in the Far East, Cupid was known as Zoroaster (zoro, ‘‘seed of’’ and aster or (“Ashteroth”).

Then pagan births were told as well. But there was one that was known along with the sun god’s death that was remarkable. Why because this story or myth, was known 2,000 years before, YAHSHUA was to be born and the similarities were unbelievable!

The myth is told that Mithras was born in a cave a lowly birth where magi came and worship him. These magi followed the eastern star (Venus) to the place where he laid. He died hanging from a tree; he was resurrected, and on the chariot of the sun (his father), taken to heaven. Mithras is to return to judge those who had not followed him with fire. To accept him is to be baptized by emersion in water, and to take communion of a wafer, which has the insignia-IHS, also the taking of wine. His sacrificial rite was the sacrificing of the bull. The insignia on the wafer stood for "The Mother, the Child, and the Father of the gods."  The sun's god great festivals are observed in the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox, which is called Christmas and Easter. In Babylon, Mithras was identified with Shamash, the sun god, and he is also Bel, the Mesopotamian and Canaanite/ Phoenician solar deity, who is likewise Marduk, the Babylonian god who represented both the planet Jupiter and the sun. Mithras is also Apollo as well as all the other reincarnations of the child-god of the Babylonian religious system.

Invoked, the first day of the week, dedicated to the Sun, being the most holy. The middle day of the month may have been devoted to Mithras, while December 25th (the Dies Natalis or Solis Invicti) was commemorated as his birthday, coinciding as it did with the winter solstice."  SEASONAL FEAST AND FESTIVALS p. 198

 How were these pagan gods celebrated, why of course by eating and drinking, also sexual orgies took place as well. These days the people “feasted,” long with large and gay banquets of food that delighted their passion, and beer and wine they would indulge in a drunken condition that any type of sexual orientation was done!

feast (n.):c. 1200, "secular celebration with feasting and entertainment" (often held on a church holiday); c. 1300, "religious anniversary characterized by rejoicing" (rather than fasting), from Old French feste "religious festival, holy day; holiday; market, fair; noise, racket; jest, fun" (12c., Modern French fête), from Vulgar Latin *festa (fem. singular; also source of Italian festa, Spanish fiesta), from Latin festa "holidays, feasts, festal banquets," noun use of neuter plural of festus "festive, joyful, merry," related to feriae "holiday" and fanum "temple," from Proto-Italic *fasno- "temple," from PIE *dhis-no- "divine, holy; consecrated place," suffixed form of PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts.

The spelling -ea- was used in Middle English to represent the sound we miss-call "long e." Meaning "abundant meal" (whether public or private) is by late 14c. Meaning "any enjoyable occasion or event" is from late 14c.

Holiday (n.): 1500s, earlier haliday (c. 1200), from Old English haligdæg "holy day, consecrated day, religious anniversary; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning both "religious festival" and "day of exemption from labor and recreation," but pronunciation and sense diverged 16c. As an adjective mid-15c. Etymology Online Dictionary

 Winter solstice celebrations often include two activities related to the failing sun: producing light and enjoying the cover the darkness provides. Thus, it is common for winter solstice celebrations to include candle lighting, bonfire creation, and drunken debauchery. The Winter Solstice in Ancient Greece, ThoughtCo

 Beginning in the week leading up to the winter solstice and continuing for a full month, Saturnalia was a hedonistic time, when food and drink were plentiful and the normal Roman social order was turned upside down. For a month, slaves would become masters. Peasants were in command of the city. Business and schools were closed so that everyone could join in the fun. History.com

You know I could never understand why would even call YAHWEH'S Holy Convocation feast? Only one supper or meal is taken. The Bible first says the passover supper was a roasted young lamb, with bitter herb and unleaved bread, and no wine is mention. (It started the night of Unleavened Bread. Mat 26:17; Mark 14:1, 12; Luke 22:1, 7, 8). YAHSHUA supper is actually taken after they ate the passover supper. It is unleavened bread and wine that it! So where are all the feast or abundant meals?

Behind all pagan deity, worship, male or female, stands, Satan, himself. He accepts the honor in whatever name we wish to call him; Baal, Moloch, Marduk, Venus, Odin, Krishna, Aphrodite, Ishtar, Zeus, Mithras, Ahura-Mazda, Dagon, God. The most important day in the life of any Satan worshipper is their annual birthday. The early Babylonians also called the sun "the goat" and said that the "goat-god" was the "sun-god (Saturs)” that even the Bible identifies as belonging to Babylon. Is. 13:21

As I close the warning of the Bible is amazing, it states what will happen in the closing of time. What is written on this thread shows the soon coming of THE MESSIAH. Many would attempt to claim that pagan rites of services can be lifted up in opposition to YAHWEH’S Law. The Universal Law that started before humanity was made. The awful truth is heard that THE HOLY SPIRIT is slowly redrawing and YAHSHUA’S love of mercy is coming to an end!

But the [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach, [misled] by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared as with a branding iron [leaving them incapable of ethical functioning]. 2 Tim 4:1-2 AMP

 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and prudent and shrewd in their own sight! Isa. 5:20, 21 KJV

 Hear ye the word which YAHWEH speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith YAHWEH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. Jer. 10:1-2 WOY

But then, when ye knew not YAHWEH, ye did service unto them which by nature are no mighty ones. But now, after that, ye have known YAHWEH, or rather are known of YAHWEH, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. Gal. 4:8-10 WOY(Ps 16:4; 53:1, 2; 106:28,37; Isa47:13, 14; Jer 7:18; Eze. 8:14-16; 36:25, 26; 32:38-40; Mat 6:6-8; 7:13, 14, 15; Acts 19:24-352; Cor 5:17;  2 Th 2:9, 10; 24:24; 2 Tim 2:26; 48:17, 18; 2 Peter 2:1-3)

I close and again, state firmly that we all here have the right to chose. You have the right to serve any day you choose to serve. I am not  THE JUDGE, I just provide humbly the message according to the Bible. It is not to defame anyone but to enlighten those who choose to be enlightened not by me, but through THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT.

May you all be bless!

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/26/2018 at 6:52 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

In view of Stinsonmarri's post, I feel a need to clearly say that in no way did I intend to imply that she was a Jesuit hiding under my bed.  As a matter of fact, I am confused as to how either she or any other person could think that I might have implied that she was a Jesuit.

To set put this in context, for any who do not know:  Jesuits are all male.  There is no such thing as a Jesuit female.  My understanding is that Stinsonmarri is a female.  I would never imply otherwise.

Further, I would never consider Stinsonmarri to have any desire to hide under my bed.

Respectfully sometime things and quotes can be misunderstood. Thanks with all due respect and your wife finding a lady hiding under your bed was hillarious! ?

Blessings!