God...I'm afraid to fully surrender because....

May 22, 2006

Jesus’ life is the standard of righteousness! He lived a perfect life with regards to the spirit of God's law. Poverty was the natural result of living selflessly in a self-centered, egocentric, fallen world run by the ruler of the world, Satan.

Walk like Him and you will experience the same. The fact that you are not experiencing it means you are falling short of God's selfless character. Hence you are a sinner. Please do not put your attributes onto my loving, selfless God.

Rob

May 22, 2006

Why does God set up some as kings and not others? Why does He choose some to be prophets and not others? Why does God give the spiritual gifts to the people He gives them to? Is not God's ways higher than our own?

I trust God. If God choose not to bless me with great financial blessings, it must be for a good reason. Maybe He is giving "my share" to someonelse that will do more to further the gospel then I would. Perhaps it is not for me to know. I am responsible for the talents God gives me and am not to be envious of the talents He gives others.

Sureendering to God and sharing in Christ's poverty can be done regardless of how God has blessed me.

May 22, 2006

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Why does God set up some as kings and not others?

Did God put Bush in office?

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Why does He choose some to be prophets and not others?

Because they are apparently open for truth, where as others are not.

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Why does God give the spiritual gifts to the people He gives them to?

What do you mean "gives"? I don't see God interfering with our human predicament. Free will, if not Satan wouldn't be here would he? This has nothing to do with $$$!

You see God is not in the business of cooperating with Satan's kingdom of "self". He doesn't force Shane to be poor and gives millions to Rob....That's crazy. You are putting on God sinful human attributes. You bring God down to our level.

You see God loves all, equally:

Matt 5:45 He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Luke 6:35 He is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish.

Job was a rich man. To say God made him rich isn't true. Job's connection to God, through faith, gave Him safety and a sound mind and body (until he got self-righteous). With these advantages and tools Job built his own wealth. God blesses mankind because of His love. What mankind does with that is not necessarily God's will or desire.

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I am responsible for the talents God gives me and am not to be envious of the talents He gives others.

Again, God doesn't interfere....He doesn't make some dumb and others smart....That's sick man....

May 23, 2006

1 Cor. 12

1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14. For the body is not one member, but many.

15. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16. And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17. If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19. And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20. But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23. And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

25. That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30. Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31. But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

May 23, 2006

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Please do not put your attributes onto my loving, selfless God.

Rob

Fair enough. I accept those terms. Please don't put your poverty on my shoulders, as Jesus hasn't given you that responsibility.

[:"red"] "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." [/] 3 John 1:2 KJV

[:"red"] "Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers." [/] 3 John 1:2 NASB

[:"red"] "beloved, concerning all things I desire thee to prosper, and to be in health, even as thy soul doth prosper... " [/]3 John 1:2 YLT

Blessings!

May 23, 2006

There are a lot of professed Christians that want no part in Christ's poverty but it goes way beyond giving up financial assests.

Many professed Christians are very stingy. They do not tip well. They do not pay their employees well. And then they turn around, make a large donation to the church and bask in the approval of church leaders. However it is wrong to charachterize all wealthy Christians like this. Many are humble and generous and upon resurection day will hear "well done good and faithful servant."

Perhaps the biggest issue is pride. Many want to look down upon some around them while looking up to others. If we are to share in Christ's poverty it means the total destruction of our pride. Pride knows no economic class. The poor are stricken by it as much as the rich. When Christ said that foxes have holes but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head it contrast more than just financial poverty - it revealed his humility. This was the same One that would later knee down to wash His disciples feet and had we been there, He would have washed ours too.

May 23, 2006

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1 Cor. 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts...

Has nothing to do with "self-seeking" and $$$!

May 23, 2006

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....When Christ said that foxes have holes but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head it contrast more than just financial poverty - it revealed his humility.

True.... However the evidence of His selflessness [law keeping] was His poverty. In heaven, where all beings practice selflessness, it's a totally different story.

Rob

May 23, 2006

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Please do not put your attributes onto my loving, selfless God.

Please don't put your poverty on my shoulders, as Jesus hasn't given you that responsibility.

No, but if you were under law and a keeper of the law, the evidence of your righteouness would be poverty in this world! So which is it - are you under law or under grace?

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"Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers." 3 John 1:2 NASB

3 John 1 To my dear friend Gaius [not LifeHisCost], whom I love in the truth. 2 Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. [NIV]

3 John 1 The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth. 2 Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in health; I know that it is well with your soul.[RSV]

May 23, 2006

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...it is wrong to charachterize all wealthy Christians like this. Many are humble and generous and upon resurection day will hear "well done good and faithful servant."

More like, "Well done, but YOU still didn't measure up to My sefless love. YOU FAILED TO LIVE MY LIFE, hence My righteousness must cover the shame your nakedness...."

God gets the glory....

May 23, 2006

Some understand "kubernesis" used in 1 Corinthians 12:28 as being management.

"And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues." NIV

"First, God chose some people to be apostles and prophets and teachers for the church. But he also chose some to work miracles or heal the sick or help others or be leaders or speak different kinds of languages." CEV

"God has chosen different ones in the church to do His work. First, there are missionaries. Second, there are preachers or those who speak for God. And third, there are teachers. He has also chosen those who do powerful works and those who have the gifts of healing. And He has chosen those who help others who are in need and those who are able to lead others in work and those who speak in special sounds." NLF

"And God has placed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, next, miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, managing, various kinds of languages." HCSB

May 24, 2006

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3 John 1 To my dear friend Gaius [not LifeHisCost], whom I love in the truth. 2 Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. [NIV]

[:"red"] "God has breathed life into all of Scripture. It is useful for teaching us what is true. It is useful for correcting our mistakes. It is useful for making our lives whole again. It is useful for training us to do what is right." [/] 1 Cor 1:16 NIRV

May 24, 2006

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1 Cor. 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts...

Has nothing to do with "self-seeking" and $$$!

[:"red"] "“And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home." [/]

Luke 16:9 NKJV

May 24, 2006

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3 John 1 To my dear friend Gaius [not LifeHisCost], whom I love in the truth. 2 Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. [NIV]

[:"red"] "God has breathed life into all of Scripture. It is useful for teaching us what is true. It is useful for correcting our mistakes. It is useful for making our lives whole again. It is useful for training us to do what is right." [/] 1 Cor 1:16 NIRV

Okay...then if you are going to apply everything in scripture as applicable, I give to you Matt 19:16-26!

May 24, 2006

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Some understand "kubernesis" used in 1 Corinthians 12:28 as being management.

Oh boy, here we go....Management is God ordained! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Tell me, Shane, did God put Bush in office?

May 25, 2006

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[:"red"] "God has breathed life into all of Scripture. It is useful for teaching us what is true. It is useful for correcting our mistakes. It is useful for making our lives whole again. It is useful for training us to do what is right." [/] 1 Cor 1:16 NIRV

Okay...then if you are going to apply everything in scripture as applicable, I give to you Matt 19:16-26!

[:"red"] "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." [/] Matt 19:26 KJV

Thanks Robert, I needed that.

[:"red"] "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

" [/] Colossians 1:27 KJV

[:"red"] "After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you." [/] 1 Peter 5:10 NASB

And Pam, those are especially for you. Hope you're still viewing. Blessings

May 27, 2006

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[:"red"] "God has breathed life into all of Scripture. It is useful for teaching us what is true. It is useful for correcting our mistakes. It is useful for making our lives whole again. It is useful for training us to do what is right." [/] 1 Cor 1:16 NIRV

Okay...then if you are going to apply everything in scripture as applicable, I give to you Matt 19:16-26!

[:"red"] "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." [/] Matt 19:26 KJV

Most of the time I appreciate your quotes, however...just quoting a verse here or there is quite meaningless without the direction of the context.

So what's impossible with men, but not with God?

Mark 10:23 "Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they were astonished exceedingly, saying unto him, Then who can be saved? [Now your quote:] 27 Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for all things are possible with God."

Instead of going deep on this I'll default to EGW:

-BC- COL

-TI- Christ's Object Lessons

-CN- 28

-CT- The Reward of Grace

-PR- 03

-PG- 393

As the young man turned away, Jesus said to His disciples, "How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God." These words astonished the disciples. They had been taught to look upon the rich as the favorites of heaven; worldly power and riches they themselves hoped to receive in the Messiah's kingdom; if the rich were to fail of entering the kingdom, what hope could there be for the rest of men?….

You see the Jews were taught that a "rich man" was a good man blessed of God for his obedience to the law of God. The evidence of his goodness was His property!

So it amazed the disciples that this "righteous man" couldn't get into heaven. Jesus said that "it [was] easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." He is speaking of the impossibility of mankind saving himself or depending on items such as "goods" to prove his righteousness.

May 27, 2006

Hey Robert!

I understand where you are coming from in regards to being afraid to fully surrender. But its not just financially where we find ourselves afraide to surrender. Personally, I faced a choice over the past 2 weeks on wether or not to go to Brazil to see my sick grandmother. However I'd have to leave my 3 children, ages 4, 6 and 10. I was torn. Having grown up in the US with my parents working from 4 in the afternoon to 8 in the morning (my mom, my dad went from 4 in the afternoon to 12 noon)... when I would get to see my grandmother (1 ever 4 years or so), I was in heaven. She would lay me down next her and tell me stories, sing songs and was basically the "oasis" in a very sad, very lonely childhood. However, since 1996 I couldn't leave the country (while awaiting my greencard, if I left I'd lose my right to the greencard). So the last time I had been with her had been in 96. She was very sick and could not come to visit me again. So, I prayed and prayed and prayed over the last 2 weeks about going. I felt God was keeping her alive long enough for me to say goodbye (now that I finally got my greencard). But my lack of faith wouldn't allow me to go to brazil and leave my kids behind. In my mind I knew God would protect me and my kids. But the truth is, in my heart, I didn't have the courage to place my kids in Gods hands and go to another country. Especially with all the violence and bloodshed that Sao Paulo has experienced over the last 3 weeks. And so, because I didn't have enough faith in God, because I was afraid to fully surrender my life (literally, as I was very afraid of the plane trip over there, as well as of the riots and shootings that have been occuring), and because I was afraid to fully surrender my kids lives to God (as if my being around makes a difference, in the end it's God who keeps them safe, really, not me), I missed the chance to be with her. And last night she passed away.

The truth is that any time we fail to fully surrender any part of our lives to God, we are the ones who lose out. This week I read the book, Escape To God.. I highly recommend it. In it you will see that to fully surrender to God is to give over EVERYTHING. Our thougths, our wants, and especially our fears. And then, maybe, we'll be able to turn over even our money (IF thats what God wants).

May 27, 2006

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The truth is that any time we fail to fully surrender any part of our lives to God, we are the ones who lose out.

Are you aware of what you are saying? Examine the following:

1 Peter 2:21 Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Full surrender brings suffering, not from God, but rather from the world under Satan.

"All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Do you think Christ enjoyed being homeless? No! Are there homeless beings in heaven? Of course not! But the principle working in heaven is 180 degrees out from the principle in this world.

Let me quote how it looks in heaven once again:

" In heaven none will think of self...."

That's an amazing statement if you take time to reflect on it. No one in heaven thinks of himself or herself. Their ambition is always outward (agape), never inward (as in a U-turn agape).

Instead, "all, from pure, genuine love, will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

Now try doing that here! Look at Christ, how did He do living a selfless life in this world based on "I-ism"? We are told He didn't have a place to lay His head. We are told He lived in poverty. Why? He fully surrendered to God in a world that is centered in "self".

Here's a song that I just heard on the local Christian radio. This guy is just being honest. I like it:

Which Jesus do you follow?

Which Jesus do you serve?

If Ephesians says to imitate Christ

Then why do you look so much like the world?

Cause my Jesus bled and died

He spent His time with thieves and liars

He loved the poor and accosted the arrogant

So which one do you want to be?

Blessed are the poor in spirit

Or do we pray to be blessed with the wealth of this land?

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness

Or do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand?

Cause my Jesus bled and died for my sins

He spent His time with thieves and [s l u t s]* and liars

He loved the poor and accosted the rich

So which one do you want to be?

Who is this that you follow?

This picture of the American dream

If Jesus was here would you walk right by on the other side or fall down and worship at His holy feet?

Pretty blue eyes and curly brown hair and a clear complexion - Is how you see Him as He dies for Your sins

But the Word says He was battered and scarred

Or did you miss that part?

Sometimes I doubt we'd recognize Him!

Cause my Jesus bled and died

He spent His time with thieves and the least of these

He loved the poor and accosted the comfortable

So which one do you want to be?

Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church

The blood and dirt on His feet would stain the carpet

But He reaches for the hurting and despised the proud

I think He'd prefer Beale St. to the stained glass crowd

And I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud

I want to be like my Jesus!

I want to be like my Jesus!

Not a posterchild for American prosperity, but like my Jesus. You see I'm tired of living for success and popularity I want to be like my Jesus but I'm not sure what that means to be like You Jesus Cause You said to live like You, love like You but then You died for me

Can I be like You Jesus?

I want to be like my Jesus

Artist: Todd Agnew

Album: Reflection Of Something

Song: My Jesus

* This was censored, but it's part of the lyrics.

May 28, 2006

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This week I read the book, Escape To God.. I highly recommend it. In it you will see that to fully surrender to God is to give over EVERYTHING. Our thougths, our wants, and especially our fears. And then, maybe, we'll be able to turn over even our money (IF thats what God wants).

Paula, I encourage you not to keep beating yourself up over things past you believe you could have done better. While the things we could have done never happened, the experience of what might have been is hypothetical, and essentially a fairy tale. I've learned not to base my present emotions on a "what if", but rather accept the reality that if I've asked God to guide me, as a faithful Father we can believe He permitted the circumstances to occur that will bring about the best eternal results, by His grace to be sure.

[:"red"] "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." [/] Phil 3:12-14 KJV

[:"red"] "What if some did not believe and were without faith? Does their lack of faith and their faithlessness nullify and make ineffective and void the faithfulness of God and His fidelity [to His Word]?" [/] Romans 3:3

AMP

[:"red"] "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." [/] 2 Timothy 2:13 NASB

[:"red"] "The humble He guides in justice,And the humble He teaches His way." [/] Psalm 25:9 NKJV

It sounds to me that you may have had many prayers sent to our Father, for the sake of your grandmother. If their is any redeeming value in those prayers at all, and I have no doubt there is, be assured they are answered. Not in the way you had anticipated, but when you eventually see the answer, you will ask your Father (and mine), why you ever spent time sorrowing except for a moment.

[:"red"] "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." [/]

2 Corinthians 12:9 KJV

[:"red"] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it." [/]

John 14:12-14 NASB

Blessings!!

May 28, 2006

LifeHisCost,

Thank you so much for your words of kindness. My family was all away when this happened (except for my kids), and therefore I have had only the Lord to comfort me. And that is more than enough of course. But it is also very comforting when another human being gives one words of encouragement and kindness. I thank you very much for it! I am sure the Lord has used you to show me some much needed kindness and comfort in this very sad time! May God richly bless you for it!!

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