Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 21, 2006 Members Posted May 21, 2006 quote from a confessed Christian: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> A person could be the best person in the whole world, feeding the poor, ministering to the sick, etc, but if they havent accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, they will not be saved. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Is this a commonly accepted belief in the Christian world??? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> quote from a confessed Christian: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> A person could be the best person in the whole world, feeding the poor, ministering to the sick, etc, but if they haven’t accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, they will not be saved. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Is this a commonly accepted belief in the Christian world??? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Paul: "By the works of the Law no flesh [person] will be justified in His [God's] sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." We can't judge...."Works of law" are works done to merit heaven. Every person who knowingly rejects his/her need of Christ's righteousness is attempting to gain heaven by his/her so-called goodness [works of the law]. There are those who have never heard the name of Jesus, yet through what has been created [i.e., the world] they have accepted the light "which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." Their works signify faith, what the Bible calls works of faith. Anyway, God knows them who are His! Rob Quote
Dr. Shane Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Most Christians do believe that one must confess the name of Christ in order to be saved. Seventh-day Adventists tend to believe as Robert has laid out the matter. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
cricket Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 What of those who have learned of Christ Jesus and reject Him? Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 22, 2006 Author Members Posted May 22, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> What of those who have learned of Christ Jesus and reject Him? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> That's where my mind starts getting tangled... I keep thinking that in order to reject Christ, a person must have some sort of foundational understanding of who Christ is and what His message was all about. Just to hear about Jesus doing miracles or that He died on the cross isnt enough - I think a person needs some understanding about it.. and his/her understanding of Christ is going to depend a lot on how He's presented/introduced. I know in grade school/academy/college I was completely ignorant of the gospel - even with Bible classes in every grade. It wasnt so much that I rejected Christ, as it was that I didnt see anything to *accept.* <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted May 23, 2006 Posted May 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> What of those who have learned of Christ Jesus and reject Him? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath* remains on him.” Heb 3:12 Take care, brethren [those who have accepted Christ], lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God [i.e., "falling from grace"]. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end... * God's wrath is passive. It happens when He abandons the persistent unbeliever. God will not force His love and protection on those who reject Him. There's no compulsion or coercion in agape love. Rob Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2006 Posted May 23, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I know in grade school/academy/college I was completely ignorant of the gospel - even with Bible classes in every grade. It wasn’t so much that I rejected Christ, as it was that I didn’t see anything to *accept.* <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Very, very, very, very, very, very, very good point! By the way, did I say very, good point? Anyway, you are right on the money. This must also include many atheists. In fact the best way to produce atheists and unbelievers is to present a god with human attributes. That immediately perverts the gospel, and believe me the Christian church as perverted the gospel through making God's love like human love. When the gospel is fully restored and goes to the world you will see many convert over. The world needs to know our God...they need to know about a God who was willing to die, not for 3 days, but for eternity so that His murderers could take His place! The gospels teaches me that He loves me more than Himself. God's ambition is to live for sinners....He is the servant of all. Perfect love casts out fear, for those who fear don't know God. Rob Quote
Neil D Posted May 27, 2006 Posted May 27, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> What of those who have learned of Christ Jesus and reject Him? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> But what type of Christ? I mean, what have those who are supposed to have rejected, rejected? Is it a type of Christ whose only purpose is to support a "everyone who doesnt' believe in Jesus goes to hell" type of Christ? What about the wishy-washy type of Christ that is good in the NT and bad OT? What about the person who doesn't believe that Jesus did miracles but explains away the supposed miracles in the bible, as rational but over inflated sensationalized stories, ie feeding 5000 people with 3 loaves and 2 fishes [or something to that effect]? What if YOUR understanding of Jesus Christ is not accurate? Does that keep you OUT of heaven? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted May 27, 2006 Moderators Posted May 27, 2006 A dear Adventist minister whom I admire used to say, "If that were my picture of God, I'd reject Him too!" In other words, if we've been shown only a rigid, vindictive, severe, judgmental, restrictive picture of God, who would want to follow such a god?!! But Jesus said [Jn. 15:15] "I call you no longer servants, but friends; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth." God takes us into his confidence; He shares with us; He wants us to be his friends. And Jesus said, when on this earth, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." In other words, nobody was frightened by Jesus; He was the most kind, loving Person imaginable. Well, that's exactly what God is, also. Jesus came to this earth to show us the Father. And He will take us all to heaven, unless we actively resist. Jesus said, "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all unto Me." He's drawing us to Himself right now, as we contemplate these topics. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....
Robert Posted May 28, 2006 Posted May 28, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Jesus said, when on this earth, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." In other words, nobody was frightened by Jesus; He was the most kind, loving Person imaginable. Well, that's exactly what God is, also. Jesus came to this earth to show us the Father. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/thankyousign.gif" alt="" /> Quote
Neil D Posted May 29, 2006 Posted May 29, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> A dear Adventist minister whom I admire used to say, "If that were my picture of God, I'd reject Him too!" <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> So then, the person who rejects one image of who he thinks the World has accepted, but does good works, gives to the poor, helps the stranger, works to establish a fair and equiable system in both the home and community,shuns oppressive behaviors, would be someone that Jesus would accept into heaven. If that is the case, I know a lot of pagans and few Adventists that would be allowed into heaven... <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Robert Posted May 29, 2006 Posted May 29, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> So then, the person who rejects one image of who he thinks the World has accepted, but does good works, gives to the poor, helps the stranger, works..... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Merit? Quote
cleverdics Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 John 12:47 (KJV) And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. If Jesus did not come to judge the world, what is my role? To judge? I don't think so. I am a member of the Kingdom to preach the good news <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/preach.gif" alt="" /> "Who gets saved?" can be a distraction used by Satan to discourage us. Who gets saved is not my problem, or yours. Even my being saved or not, is not my problem. That's Gods work. I just have to stay focused on Jesus for the next 30 or 40 years that God gives me and trust that God knows what He is doing. That's what being saved by Faith means. It's too easy, isn't it! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Quote Being Christian is really simple. Look after your family and your mates, feel sorry for the idiots and leave the rest up to God. She'll be right mate!
Robert Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 "We should not make self the center and indulge anxiety and fear as to whether we shall be saved. All this turns the soul away from the Source of our strength. Commit the keeping of your soul to God, and trust in Him. Talk and think of Jesus. Let self be lost in Him. Put away all doubt...." [sC 72] Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 2, 2006 Author Members Posted June 2, 2006 []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/] I did not present the question to judge anyone. If you don't think the question of "who gets saved" is important, then let's just trash all forms of evangelism, shall we? After all, if it isn't a Christian's responsibility to understand who the *lost* are....hey, just build some convents and monasteries and some nice Waco-type structures for families, and wait for the *lost* to come to you. []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_rolleyes.gif[/] Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
LifeHiscost Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> John 12:47 (KJV) "Who gets saved?" can be a distraction used by Satan to discourage us. Who gets saved is not my problem, or yours. Even my being saved or not, is not my problem. That's Gods work. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Refreshing! My "work" is to submit. [:"red"] "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." [/] James 4:7 KJV <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" /> Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> you don't think the question of "who gets saved" is important <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> The question is important when asked for the sake of knowing what we can be personally assured. Are you concerned for yourself, Pam? If you have Jesus, you need not be anxious. [:"red"] "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." [/] 1 John 5:12 NASB [:"red"] "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." [/] Rev 3:20 KJV <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" /> Blessings!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 2, 2006 Author Members Posted June 2, 2006 I need to step out of this thread. Though I understand nobody is being mean or attacking, I'm feeling like I'm getting backed into a corner. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.