Antichrist Only Human?

[JoeMo]

" And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Gen. 3:15)

In examining this verse, it is generally believed that the seed of the woman is singular, applying to the Messiah - a union of human and divine.  Assuming this view is correct; and applying consistent hermeneutics, if it possible that the seed of the serpent refers to a singular physical descendant of the serpent.? If so, is it possible that satan will somehow produce an offspring of himself and a human woman who will be the antichrist?

While researching this thought, I stumbled upon this video; which explains the logic much better than I can.  If you are interested, please view it. About 30 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP1ooG1qvKk

I'm not the least bit dogmatic about this; but I think there is good scripture to support it; so it is a legitimate view (as are other views).  It's all in the video.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JoeMo,

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 8:21 AM, JoeMo said:

is it possible that satan will somehow produce an offspring of himself and a human woman who will be the antichrist?

I have watched the video and consider it to be faulty on at least five premises and statements and a few of these is where I differ on some of the SDA teaching itself, but I will not elaborate. I believe that the seed of the serpent is a theme and the first example of the conflict was between Cain and Abel. The Romans and the Jews combined to bruise Jesus in the heel. Jesus will crush the head of the serpent when all the effects of the serpent thinking are destroyed at the end of the 1000 years. Daniel 7 reveals the Antichrist system headed up by the Papacy. The Pope who will be current at the return of Christ will oppose Christ at that time.

Kind regards Trevor

[JoeMo]

Hi Trevor,

I was convinced no one would even watch the video or respond.  Thanks.

I completely understand your position. Notwithstanding those things upon which you did not wish to elaborate, your position is the basic position of most SDA's.  If you are a lifelong SDA educated solely on SDA doctrine and theology, it may be the only eschatology you are familiar with.

While I don't agree with everything Pastor Holthaus said, his basic premise seems scripturally sound to me - at least worthy of consideration.  It also fits well into my personal  belief that fallen angels are able to procreate with human women as stated in Genesis 6.

I don't hold it as salvational doctrine; but I believe that is what the Bible literally says.  If you wouldn't mind, could you provide one or two areas upon which you disagree; and provide some scriptural backup?

[JoeMo]

Let's assume that the papacy is the antichrist. Do you think it feasible that this pope could be a satanic-human hybrid?

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JoeMo,

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

If you wouldn't mind, could you provide one or two areas upon which you disagree; and provide some scriptural backup?

I will mention two aspects only, and these are what you have raised in your Posts. Both of these have the same answer. You may be disappointed as I will not prove this from Scripture, but state my understanding of these. The following is not proof, but part of the basis of my belief that Angels do not reproduce with humans:

Luke 20:34–36 (KJV): 34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Another aspect is that I believe that the Serpent in the Garden was a Serpent, part of the Edenic Creation.

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

It also fits well into my personal  belief that fallen angels are able to procreate with human women as stated in Genesis 6.

This is speaking about the breakdown of separation between the seed of the woman, “the Sons of God” and the seed of the serpent represented by “the daughters of men”. Angels do not reproduce with humans.

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Let's assume that the papacy is the antichrist. Do you think it feasible that this pope could be a satanic-human hybrid?

There is nothing spectacular about the present Pope or any future Pope for that matter. Angels do not reproduce with humans.

Kind regards Trevor

[JoeMo]

14 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Angels do not reproduce with humans.

This would be the basis of our disagreement.  To me, Genesis 6 explicitly says that fallen angels (sons of God) had children with human women (daughters of man); and those children were giants and men of renown (renown doesn't necessarily mean "nice guys". Remember - Hitler and Stalin were men of renown as well).  While we may all be adopted sons and daughters of God in the NT, we are not creations of God; we are creations of our family (Except for Adam - He was a direct creation of God).  In the OT, "sons of God" refers specifically to angels - who were all direct creations of God.

To me, this is just as clear as any other historical fact in scripture.  Just cuz it's weird doesn't mean it's not true.  That being said, I understand from feedback I've gotten previously on this subject that it is not a very popular viewpoint here.  It is accepted as cold hard fact on other Christian forums that I visit.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JoeMo,

14 hours ago, JoeMo said:

To me, Genesis 6 explicitly says that fallen angels (sons of God) had children with human women (daughters of man); and those children were giants and men of renown (renown doesn't necessarily mean "nice guys".

The title “sons of God” does not necessarily indicate direct individual creation. We encounter the terms “sons of Belial” and this could translated “sons of wickedness”:

1 Samuel 2:12 (KJV): Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD.

1 Samuel 2:12 (ESV): Now the sons of Eli were worthless men. They did not know the Lord.

1 Samuel 2:12 (NIV84): Eli’s sons were wicked men; they had no regard for the Lord.

We also encounter the term “sons of thunder” and again this is speaking of their character, not how they were born or who were their parents:

Mark 3:17 (KJV): And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

Also the giants were in the earth before “the sons of God” reproduced with “the daughters of men”.

Genesis 6:4 (KJV): There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

This could be referring to the height of their stature, or their moral character.

The theme of the two seeds, Cain and Abel, then the descendants of Cain compared with the descendants of Seth and this is highlighted in the following prominent example:

Genesis 4:23–26 (KJV): 23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. 24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. 25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. 26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Kind regards Trevor

[Gregory Matthews]

Sons of God:    

*  Matthew 22:30   makes it clear that then angels do NOT procreate.

*  Genesis chapters 5 & 6,deal with humanity, its wickedness and how God dwelt with it.  This overall context would suggest that the phrase "sons of God" references humans.

*  Genesis chapter 4 presents the story of Cain killing his brother Able.  In that story, Cain and his family flee that area in which the rest of the family live.

*  In chapter 4,  Seth is presented as being born after the death of Able.  Chapter 5 carries on this with describing the descendent of Seth, in the person of Enoch,  as being a follower of God--Genesis 5:24.  It would be reasonable to consider those followers of God  to be considered sons and daughters of God.

*  In contrast to the followers of God, those descendants of Cain, could be considered to be sons and daughters of men.

*  In any case, Genesis chapters 6 & 7 present the flood of Noah as being a punishment for the great wickedness that existed among humanity.  That punishment was only a punishment that could be given to humans.  Angels would not be punished by a flood.  This further suggests that the phrase "sons of God" did not apply to angelic beings.

 

 

[JoeMo]

Trevor and GM,

I appreciate your responses above; but to me, you are attempting to spiritualize away what the Bible literally says.  The first several verses of Genesis 6 were not put there as a "rabbit trail".  IMHO, they explain the reason for the flood - this hybrid race of giants had to be destroyed before they destroyed purebred humanity.  God had to destroy the giants/Nephillim  in Canaan because otherwise, they would have destroyed Israel.  The "strange flesh" referred to in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah was fallen angels and Nephillim. Matthew 22:30 says angels IN HEAVEN do not procreate.  It says nothing of those angels who left their original habitation (See Jude 6).

When Matthew talks about the end being as in the days of Noah; and as in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah, He's talking about the return of these beings to the earth.  Check out the 5th trumpet is Revelation.  Who are these demons from the abyss?  Why were they locked in the abyss to begin with?  If it is because they are "bad", why isn't their chief - satan - locked up?  It could be because satan never crossed the boundary of human - spiritual relations - yet.

This is not a salvational issue; although it helped me to understand God's apparently "unmerciful" judgement of the antediluvians, Sodom/Gomorrah, and various Canaanite tribes. This was done out of love to save "purebred" humanity.