Symbol of the Cross

[cricket]

In another post there is mentioned the display of a cross in a SDA church. In every SDA church I've visited this has been "taboo". No crosses are hung. Is this a local thing, or is it "taboo" in other areas?

[Gail]

Actually, our church board studied this and afterward they decided to install a cross.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The Adventist church in the city where I live remodeled the exterior. They thought it would be nice for the eastern side of the exterior to have a brick-on-brick bas relief of the cross on a mountain with the sun rising behind it....This is a diagram of how the bas relief was applied by the bricklayers to the outside (it got changed): []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/100-0381.JPG[/]

[cricket]

Pam! I think that's great. It is the man, Jesus that we should worship anyway...not the cross.

[Amelia]

Now that I think on this, none of the churches I have belonged to or visited have had neither crosses or pics of Jesus. The church I belong to now has a backlit stained glass dove above the baptismal.

[Nan]

At a previous church I attended, a cross was carved in the wood of the lectern. Above the rostrum there was a wonderful stained glass window featuring a white dove above an open Bible, with a cross outlined over all.

[David Koot]

I have always believed and understood from Scripture that display of religious symbols such as the cross, is inappropriate. That would include 'cross' necklaces, crosses on churches, crucifixes and so forth. Any such things would seem to be a violation of the 2nd commandment. The early church did not use such things, as far as I am aware. It would seem to have originated in the RC church.

Dave

[Gail]

What about the fish symbol? Wasn't that used by the early church members?

[cricket]

I would assume that any symbol would be in violation of the 2nd commandment.

[David Koot]

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Gail said:

What about the fish symbol? Wasn't that used by the early church members?

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The 'fish' symbol was used as a type of code to identify other believers, during the Roman persecution. The word was an acronym: Iesus Xristos Theos Uios Soter, I believe.[iXTHUS] It was not part of their worship, nor did they have an iconography.

[David Koot]

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Cricket said:

I would assume that any symbol would be in violation of the 2nd commandment.

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The context of the 2n commandment would seem to indicate a symbol or object used as an religious icon.

[cricket]

David,

That's what I was thinking when I posted. But, on second thought, the symbol of the cross in church does not necessarily mean "worship" of the cross--does it?

In the current Seventh-Day Adventist logo we have a book (I assume this is a Bible), a cross, three flames (representing the three angels' message) and a sphere to represent the earth (the message being carried to all the earth).

This logo is found on our bulletin, the pulpit (so, yes, we do display a cross in our sanctuary--come to think of it), our church sign, as well as all legal communication.

An icon then, is what we make of the symbol, isn't it?

(Just questions.)

[David Koot]

Hmmm . . . a church's logo. Interesting. I would have to limit my observations to an icon in a church, for example a crucifix or a cross. Clearly, setting up a crucifix on the podium would be a violation of Scripture. Would a cross without the figure of Jesus, also be a violation of Scripture? In regard to icons, there are some which in and of themselves are not appropriate, regardless of the subjective response of the worshipers. Other symbols can become objects of worship, but are not, in and of themselves, such--for example, gold coins. (I once knew a man who kept his collection (each worth hundreds of thousands of dollars) in a bank vault and would go admire them from time to time.) The crucifix, and the cross, both are icons per se, regardless of the attitude of the worshipers, and, as such, would seem to be in violation of the 2nd comm.

[Amelia]

*tacking

icon :noun

Etymology: Latin, from Greek eikOn, from eikenai to resemble

1 : a usually pictorial representation : IMAGE

2 [Late Greek eikOn, from Greek] : a conventional religious image typically painted on a small wooden panel and used in the devotions of Eastern Christians

3 : an object of uncritical devotion : IDOL

image:noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, short for imagene, from Latin imagin-, imago; perhaps akin to Latin imitari to imitate

1 : a reproduction or imitation of the form of a person or thing; especially : an imitation in solid form : STATUE

3 a : exact likeness : SEMBLANCE <God created man in his own image -- Gen 1:27 (Revised Standard Version)> b : a person strikingly like another person <she is the image of her mother>

idol :noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old French idole, from Late Latin idolum, from Greek eidOlon image, idol; akin to Greek eidos form -- more at IDYLL

1 : a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god

2 a : a likeness of something b obsolete : PRETENDER, IMPOSTOR

3 : a form or appearance visible but without substance <an enchanted phantom, a lifeless idol -- P. B. Shelley>

4 : an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol>; also : IDEAL 2

5 : a false conception : FALLACY

[Pockey]

Another perspective on this subject:

“Should Adventists Object to the Use of the Cross?" by Samuele Bacchiocchi

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quoted from Dr. Bacchiocchi's article:

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I found that pagans despised the Cross because it was the shameful symbol of execution of criminals. The Cross has never been a  pagan symbol of worship.

 While the celebration of Christ’s birth on December 25 with the lights, Christmas tree, exchanging of gifts can be traced to the third century pagan celebration of the Natalis Solis Invicto—the birth of the invincible Sun-god, the adoption of the Cross as the symbol of the  Christian faith, has no pagan roots. Christians adopted the Cross, as explained shortly, in spite of its shame and ridicule, simply because they understood that the sacrificial death of Jesus on the Cross was the foundation and core of their faith.

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<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I don't mean to say Dr. Bacchiocchi's research is in error, but it's not exactly correct either, at least not according to another source. Records from Tertullian, a pagan who converted to Christianity around 195 AD, states that the "sign" of the cross began when Pagans and Christians co-mingled within families. The sign of the cross at first was a mark on the forehead, and then became a hand-sign as well, signifying the bearer was not ashamed of the Cross of Christ. The converted pagans believed that the sign would *invoke* the name of Christ. (That's a pagan concept.)

The first wooden cross as a symbol was made by Constantine in the 3rd century AD when he erected a statue of himself alongside a wooden cross. This was in response to a vision he saw in the sky of a cross with the words: In this Sign thou shalt overcome.

The appearance of plain wooden crosses in churches began in the 4th century AD and was used, as Dr. Bacchiocchi stated, as a memorial symbol of the importance of Christ's death on the cross. The use of the crucifix in churches began in 690 AD.

(information from: A History of Antient Ceremonies. Containing An Account of their Rise and Growth, their first Entrance into the Church, and their gradual Advancement to Superstition therein. London: 1669.)

[David Koot]

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CoAspen said:

Will someone tell me if they know of a church or a person worshiping a piece of wood in the SDA church.

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Erhm . . . the reference was to a crucifix--that is, the figure of Jesus on the cross.