The Status of the NAD Today

[Gregory Matthews]

Here we can talk about TOP, music and similar issues..

My expectation for that section includes:

*  Respectful treatment of others and their views.

*  Posts can include frank statements of belief.

*  We remain respectful of the SDA denomination and those who lead it.

*  We discuss from the standpoint as to where we individually are.

*  We do not become the highly critical website that some others are.

*  We do not become a thread that simply cites (references) other critical websites.

*  We have some responsibility for what we post, regardless of what others have posted.

 

I am willing to see how this goes, and give it a try.  As needed I will feel free to revise and add to what I have posted above.

[Gregory Matthews]

I will start this off with a personal statement:

I have come to the opinion that the SDA Denomination, at least is it exists in North America (the NAD), Is not fulfilling the role that God would want it to have in End Time.  

From the beginning of our development as a denomination  in the time of William Miller, we have proclaimed that we are living at the End of Time and the 2nd Advent is near.  This belief give us a special responsibility as to how we approach our mission today.  I believe that we are failing to meet those End Time responsibilities.

Personally, I do not have the concern as to doctrine, music and other such that some have.  My focus is on the manner in which we are organized to perform our mission.

We have become a top-heavy organization in which resources flow upwards.  The individual congregation is least important in our organizational structure and the congregational pastor is the least important figure in  our administrative structure.

I have written a multi-page document on this subject, which I am not ready to post here.

The Winter, 2020, print edition of Adventist Today contains several articles, which while focused on the 2020 General Conference Session, agree with my thinking that we need organizational changes to be made in order to accomplish the mission that God has given us.  If you can obtain a copy of the print edition, it will challenge your thinking.

So, I open this thread for discussions along this line of thought.  Please adhere to the standards that I mentioned in my previous post.   

 

 

[debbym]

my thought in response is this. it will not be a more effective structural organizational change that will effectively empower the NAD or our denomination to fulfill it's calling to meet the demands of the mission for the end times.  what is limiting our imperfect organization filled with imperfect leaders and imperfect members is the lack of interest in being filled with the Spirit of God.  The lack of  love for our deeply lost and broken world including our church family exposes our unbelief in  God.  i am not talking about not believing God exists, but not giving ourselves to serve the purposes of God.

Now i may be naive.  I have not worked denominationally.  I have talked with some who left denominational employment.  I am convinced denominational leaders will not necessarily be a part of the great army of workers that will proclaim the goodness and power of God that will prepare everyone who is willing to be ready to meet Jesus when he comes. (sorry about this long sentence)  It is an individual matter.  Our leaders may not be those who lead the work of giving the last message to the world.

[BlessedMan]

9 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I have come to the opinion that the SDA Denomination, at least is it exists in North America (the NAD), Is not fulfilling the role that God would want it to have in End Time.  

this I would agree with.

9 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

we need organizational changes to be made in order to accomplish the mission that God has given us

This has no substance to it by which a sensible comment could be made. You would have to supply a few details before anyone could say yea or nea. What did you have in mind for said "changes?"  Im pretty sure I have an idea. But will not put words in anyone's mouth. It seems that we keep mentioning this word "change" without really having a substantial idea of what we are intending.

52 minutes ago, debbym said:

I am convinced denominational leaders will not necessarily be a part of the great army of workers that will proclaim the goodness and power of God that will prepare everyone who is willing to be ready to meet Jesus when he comes.

I agree 100% with this. Your post is well-said. I wish you would post here more often. ?

[Gregory Matthews]

BlessedMan:   My intention was not to be specific at this time.  However, I gave a hint which I will restate:  The organizational structure of the Church should be such that its primary function should be to support the local congregation in its ministry and to assist it in fulfilling its mission in the geographic area that has been assigned to it.  That, as I see it, is not how this denomination is organized today.

Debbym:   I agree with you emphasis on spirituality and the importance of the Holy Spirit.  I expected that someone would add those aspects to my comments.  I left them out as I consider them to  be so foundational that I did not need to state them and I did not want to initiate the specific doctrinal issues that I expect will be mentioned.

The One Project:  It appears to me that TOP has morphed into a subset called The Young Project (TYP).  I know little about TYP,,.  However I think (?) that there is now a TOP and a TYP.  The leaders of TYP are:

Peter Flores:  A pastor

Tammy Tamalea:  A pastor

Niq Rudd:  A pastor

Lindsey Haffner

Angael Castillo:  Employed at Pacific Union College

[Gregory Matthews]

Several, perhaps unrelated, comments:

Music:  The bottom line is that music is so culturally related that there are major differences as to acceptable music in various parts of the world.  I am reminded of a GC Officer (now dead) who was known for bringing a musical instrument with him when he traveled.  However, when he traveled in some parts of the world, he was told not to bring it as in that part of the world it was not acceptable to play that instrument in a church service.  The United States has become such a diverse population that musical styles have entered the lives of our people from many different cultures.  That is reflected in our church services.

Administrative leadership:  In my thinking, the congregational pastor is the most important administrative leader in this denomination and the General Conference President is the  least important.  Mission accomplishment happens on the level of the local congregation.  It is there that this denomination either does what God wants done, or does not do what God wants done.  The President of the General Conference has little to no relationship to what happens on the congregational level.

The present structure of the SDA church is focused on a top-down compliance.  That which is voted on the General Conference level must be enforced on all lower levels of the denomination.

This structure of the denomination must be changed so that all so-called higher levels of the denomination are focused helping the local congregation to accomplish its mission.  IOW, Divisions facilitate the Unions, Unions help the Local Conference and the Local Conference helps the congregation.

All to often we do not ask pastors to tell us how they are present in the community that they serve.  Rather, we ask them as to how much money has been raised for a conference project.

All to often when we see a congregation that is struggling to maintain, we do not provide the resources needed for it to survive and we end up, eventually, closing it.

NOTE:  Some congregations should be closed and some should be merged with other congregations.  but, we do not, often, have good plans in place to decide what to do.  We just let it happen.

Local Conference Presidents all to often spend most of their time in committee meetings, when they need to be involved in helping the local congregations, often to the point of not knowing what is really happening in the local congregation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlessedMan]

1 hour ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The present structure of the SDA church is focused on a top-down compliance.  That which is voted on the General Conference level must be enforced on all lower levels of the denomination.

Perhaps this is related to "womens ordination?"  Its certainly in keeping with things you have commented on in the past here. BTW thats just an intuition, NOT an accusation.

It still seems to me that that whole issue is blown way out of context and proportions. Why switch this "top down" approach you are in objection to, to a smaller scale such as the local church by continually forcing the issue on people, most of whom just want everyone to stop fighting over it?

It is a plain fact that in places where a female Pastor is needed, that one usually arises, or is recruited, and they just start doing it anyway. Just a few miles from where I live there is a female Pastor. I will be calling that person soon for some personal matters. I am quite sure that this problem does NOT have to exist.

[debbym]

It is a good thing to fine tune organizational structure to become more effective.  I cannot see the full picture of our administration from conferences to unions to the NAD.  It  could well be the Holy Spirit is impressing you with a helpful change, and if that could be effected positive results could happen.  What organizational circle of individuals are in a position to address this level of change?  And would it be done by those who are impressed to do God's will? 

Regardless of this kind of change we need members, pastors, administrators and Spiritual leaders all through the organization to be in obedience to the Holy Spirit, who is the mighty General in the winning side of the battle of Good and evil.  In spite of the weaknesses of our structure, God can still work and bring every heart to their decision for or against God for eternity.

For me,  finding a group of individuals committed to prayer, meeting regularly outside of Church to seek God and pray for the Holy Spirit and for other's salvation, has been the greatest blessing in a long time. This is the Church organized in the smallest unit above the unit of the household. And God adds His sufficiency by the Holy Spirit.  "My grace is sufficient for you."  Perhaps this is also the experience of our leadership.  If so, if changes are needed Spirit led persons could present it and it could well take place.   I know there is no limitation with God on changes that can happen when we are united to seek His will.

The leadership issues at every level are the problems of the human nature, and this is the same as the problems of every individual.  Change is not simple at any level from the micro the the macro church body.

Thanks for bringing up this concerns,

Debbym