The Sabbath God Vs. The Sunday God

[Gustave]

I had previously made mention of a Sabbath Herald article that made a distinction between the Sabbath God & the Sunday God. Blessedman said he would be interested in looking at this document and fortunately I found it. 

The Advent Review And Sabbath Herald, Volume 4, March 7, 1854 No.7

"THE SUNDAY GOD.
 

We will make a few extracts, that the reader may see the broad contrast between the God of the Bible brought to light through Sabbath-keeping, and the god in the dark through Sunday-keeping.

Catholic Catechism Abridged by the Rt. Rev. John Pubois, Bishop of New York. Page 5.

Ques. Where is God ?

Ans. God is everywhere.

Q.Does God see and know all things?  

A. Yes, he does know and see all things.

Q. Has God any body?

A. No; God has no body, he is a pure Spirit.

Q. Are there more Gods than one ?

A. No; there is but one God.

Q. Are there more persons than one in God ?

A. Yes ; in God there are three persons.

Q. Which are they?

A. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

Q. Are there not three Gods ?

A. No; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, are all but one and the same God.

The first article of the Methodist Religion, p. 8. There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom and goodness: the maker and preserver of all
things, visible and invisible. And in unity of this God-head, there are three persons of one substance, power and eternity ; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. In this article like the Catholic doctrine, we are taught that there are three persons of one substance, power and eternity making in all one living and true God, everlasting without body or parts. But in all this we are not told what became of the body of Jesus who had a body when he ascended, who went to God who " is everywhere" or nowhere. Doxology.

"To God the Father, God the Son,
God the Spirit, three in one."

Again.
"Warms in the sun, refreshes in the breeze,
Slows in the stars, and blossoms in the trees.
Lives through all life, extends through all extent,
Spreads undivided and operates unspent."—Pope.

These ideas well accord with those heathen philosophers. One says, " That water was the principle of all things, and that God is that intelligence, by whom all things are formed out of water." Another," That air is God, that it is produced, that it is immense and infinite," <fcc. A third, " That God is a soul diffused throughout all beings of nature," &c. Some, who had the idea of a pure Spirit. Last of all, " That God is an eternal substance." These extracts are taken from Rolliris History, Vol. II, pp. 597-8, published by Harpers. We should rather mistrust that the Sunday god came from the same source that Sunday-keeping did. " Sunday was a name given by the heathens to the first day of the week, because it was the day on which they worshiped the sun."— Union £ibk Dictionary. Afterward modified by the Roman Catholic Church, in the form we now find it taught through the land. It is very natural to suppose when the Pope set himself up to be God in the temple of God, [2 Thess. ii, 4] that he should have a day sanctified to his worship. This he has done.—Douay Catechism, p. 59. Q. What is the best means to sanctify Sunday ? A. By hearing mass, &c. This saying mass is for the priest to gabble over Latin, drink some wine, and give the people a wafer to eat.

But God sanctified his day because he had rested on it. Another day for a very different purpose. Gen. ii, 3. In days before the moral fall of Babylon God directed the minds of his honest children right in their prayers, whatever they might think at other times, but now since the apostasy the mind reaches to no god but to the people only, there are many prayers to men we know by their effect and
eloquence. We are truly thankful to our heavenly Father that he has led -our minds from such folly, to know, and remember his holy name by keeping his holy day that we might love, serve and
worthily glorify him through our great High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary in this day of atonement.

DESTINY OF THOSE WHO FORGET GOD.
Ps. ix, 17. The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Ps. 1, 22 ; Isa. Ii, 13 ; John xvii, 3 ; 2 Thess. i, 7. The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven in flaming
fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God. The Sabbath was kept the same after the crucifixion as before, which is good evidence that it was not abolished or changed. First Proof. Before
Christ's crucifixion. Acts xv, 21. Fcr Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day. Acts xiii, 27. The voice of the prophets,
which are read every Sabbath day. This does not look much as some tell us that those who kept the Sabbath in old times did not go out of their houses on the Sabbath. For it is certain they could not have heard the. Books of Moses and the prophets read in their meetinghouses if they did not go out of their own houses on that day.

http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH18540307-V05-07.pdf

 

Notice the distinction here, Sunday God = very bad. "The Sunday God" of the Methodists was no different than the Sunday God of the Catholics (or Baptists, Lutherans, Greek Orthodox, etc.).

The Sabbath God had a body and parts (was tangible) while the Sunday God "had no body or parts".  

Fast forward 69 years 1 month and 8 days and you get to April 15, 1923 when the SDA Educational Department of Eastern Asia produces its report on how things are going in south India. The Title of that section of the report is called "Textbook Problems". 

Text Book Problems

INDEED this has been a great problem to us ever since we opened schools in various sections of the field. I dare say that we are the only Christian body who are so much confronted with this difficulty, not only in India but all over the world, since we have very definite and important reasons for establishing our own schools. As soon as our schools are opened the first difficulty we meet is what to put into the hands of our, children, in their mother tongue, as they progress in its study. There are many "Readers" produced by the C. L. S [CHRISTIAN LITURATURE SOCIETY - a unified body of Protestant Evangelicals who produced Bible study guides since 1799] and by Indian educators. In our school at Prakasapuram, we have used many kinds, but we prefer the latest publications of the C, L. S. to all the previous ones. In the former C. L. S. Readers we have come across certain anti-Scriptural expressions here and there on the personality of God, immortality of the soul, and the fate of the wicked. In such cases we used to draw thick lines over those expressions in the books for the lower classes and not assign them for lessons...…" http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/ET/ET19230415-V18-08.pdf

What was it about the Methodist, Baptist & Lutheran teachings "about God" in the 1920's that SDA Educators  in 1923 felt was so against the Bible that they were compelled to draw thick lines through the statements? From my research none of those Evangelical Churches have changed their fundamental belief on "God". It would appear, that at some point after 1923 the SDA's changed their position on God??? 

 

 

"

[phkrause]

Personally I don't believe in a Sunday or Sabbath God!! It's the people that decide which day they will choose not God!!

[Gregory Matthews]

I do not have a problem with stating that the SDA Trinitarian position today is more developed than it was in 1923.

 

[Gustave]

19 hours ago, phkrause said:

Personally I don't believe in a Sunday or Sabbath God!! It's the people that decide which day they will choose not God!!

I was only attempting to show how proto-SDA's as early as February 1845 taught that God wasn't a single Being but instead was a collection of like minded BeingS who were ONE only in the sense of purpose, character & agreements. This belief was defined and well articulated on November 25, 1880 when a debate between the differences of Baptist and SDA belief was displayed in a series of articles in the Sabbath Herald:

"Our reviewer then goes on at some length to show that according to our view the death of Christ was but a human sacrifice, and finally concludes, "Hence the Doctor's theory claims that the essence of God, the Supreme Being, who created and upholds all things from the beginning, was made into corruptible flesh, was killed by men," etc. The above statement is entirely
correct, with a slight addition; the insertion of the words, " does not " just before the word " claim " will make the statement correct. As it stands, it is as wide a departure from the truth as it can be. The only grounds upon which our reviewer could be justified in making such a statement would be the supposition on his part that we believe in the doctrine of the
trinity ; but he very well knows, from positions taken and arguments used in previous articles, that we do not agree with him on this subject any better than on that of the nature of the soul. We believe in but one Deity, God, who is a unity, not a compound 'being..."

&

"We repel the charge of " trinitarianism " without the slightest hesitation. We do not believe in a triune God, as before remarked."

SDA's during the life of Ellen White taught that the teaching that God was Father, Son & Holy Spirit was a Doctrine that came from the Beast Power as Jesus was a TWIN of the Father by an act of the Father:

"Again we ask, How could Jesus be the express image of his Father's person if the Father had no person? This text is very conclusive proof that God is a, 'person'. Jesus was the express image or likeness of that person, i. e., he looked just like his Father in form, features, &c. This explains John xiv, 9. "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Phillip? He that bath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father 1" " He that hath seen me bath seen the Father." How ? because Jesus was himself the Father? No; but as he looked just like the Father ; whoever saw the one knew just how the other looked. Here are two twin brothers who look just alike as near as may be. Being separate, a person says to one of them, "I would like to see your brother." He replies, "If you have seen me, you have seen my brother also, because we look just alike." So with Jesus and his Father." Sabbath Herald June 18, 1867

I'm attempting to show that its within reason to consider if Ellen White and the SDA Church may have made some mistakes in the past pertaining to their beliefs about God it would be reasonable that there could have been some mistakes or under-developed ideas about what the Beast power is and how to watch out for it. 

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

4 hours ago, Gustave said:

I'm attempting to show that its within reason to consider if Ellen White and the SDA Church may have made some mistakes in the past pertaining to their beliefs about God it would be reasonable that there could have been some mistakes or under-developed ideas about what the Beast power is and how to watch out for it. 

It is also within reason to consider if the modern up-to-date SDA Church has made some mistakes by modifying our early beliefs into something less than correct that better conforms to mainline Christianity. Not only concerning the nature of God; but some other areas of denominational beliefs as well.

[Gustave]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

It is also within reason to consider if the modern up-to-date SDA Church has made some mistakes by modifying our early beliefs into something less than correct that better conforms to mainline Christianity. Not only concerning the nature of God; but some other areas of denominational beliefs as well.

Well said!

[timtofly]

I am not sure, but it sounds like main line Christianity has slipped back past any position held 100 years ago.

No one seems to understand 100% God and 100% man, even if they claim 3 separate personages.  If God has a physical form, it is surrounded by the bright light that emanates from it, and no one has seen it. Now can Jesus see the actual "physical" form if one does exist?  Did Adam in his original form see the "physical" form?  We have never been told, because 2000 years ago, humanity was still deep in the physical flesh and understanding of only that which is physical. 

Satan can not reveal anything either, because God will not let him. Satan was allowed to set up a much more elaborate universe than God even created. This is the deception mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2. 

Now not to take too much away from God, that is not my intent. If Satan can make us accept science fact, then perhaps God is more in line with what this world calls fiction. For the last 6000 years, God has allowed Satan to create an elaborate universe that does not even exist. We call this deception a 14 billion year old universe. Technically this could be projected onto the walls inside a 3d cube. This gives the effect of a spinning ball at the center of a virtual universe. 

Just think about the new Jerusalem, a Borg space ship?  The mount of transfiguration, the teleporter in Star Trek. 

What does this have to do with the trinity? God is outside of this cube, spacetime.  Einstein claimed this cube, in saying that the 3 dimensions exist and time binds them together. The length, depth, height, and breadth of God. All reality only exist in the area of the 3 dimensions encased in a finite age of 8000 years. God is a being outside of this cube.  Jesus said in essence that where God is are many cubes.  God created all of them. God claims that time does not exist.  That would be an elaborate science fiction condition.  Not infinite time, but no time at all.  God is capable of entering this cube not just via teleportation, but can "open the cube" and enter at any point in time.  The beginning, the middle, or end as God would see fit. Relating to only a Spiritual being, perhaps God played into Satan's request, as only an advanced technological culture would only understand God as He truly is.

I am not trying to humanize God at all. We are only going to get back to the state Adam was originally in. The full image of God.  However the physical part we are missing is not "spirit", but an intense light that fallen humanity can not receive, because our current condition was changed.

The angels were the lights in the sky at the top of this reality. The sons of God were the light beings on earrth. There is a basement, that God in foreknowledge reserved for Satan and those beings who would follow him.  This may just sound like science fiction because it is. Satan's science he has educated all humanity with the last 2500 years is only a virtual reality. Only in the last 100 years was Satan allowed to bring humans to the brink of understanding God, but only as science fiction. 

Jesus was both the original and fallen Adam at the same time. Einstein's true relativity. A body that could phase in and out of physical reality.  Read early church writings of John's understanding of Jesus' body. Why and what happened to Jesus can only be understood with modern science fiction.  Because historically what was written as fiction God let Satan turn into fact. God has advanced some ideas, by putting thoughts into the heads of fiction writers. Satan was allowed to place tons of math into human thoughts via "spiritual encounter"

The whole point of salvation and the Atonement was to take away sin the result of disobedience. But also the punishment of work given to Adam when the ground was cursed and no longer yielded up it's fruit. Adam's descendants had to work by the sweat of the brow.  The same place 666 was branded on all humanity. Yes, the punishment of God was 6 k years of labor, 6 days a week, 6 hours a day.  In modern technology Satan has exacted from fallen man way more work than the 6 hours a day God demands. Even taking away a 7th day of rest.  The Jews and Christians combined had shortened work to 5 days. So after the expected Second Coming, the promised wedding celebration,  will be cut in half with a 3.5 year interruption by Satan. All those who join Satan and take work to the next level by proudly showing their 666 branding in Solidarity with Satan will be the first to have their names removed from the Lamb's book of life. Those who are beheaded, will be resurrected to reign with Christ for the 1k year honeymoon.  Their descendants will have one last option to choose between God and Satan in one last battle. Then this reality will end.

[Gustave]

timtofly,

I appreciate your references to star-trek and science fiction. Its going to take me quite a while to digest your post. To be clear on my end I'm maintaining that Ellen White taught that God the Father was a flesh, bone, organ hominid. 

"What is Jesus Christ? He is the Son of God, and is like his Father....He is a material intelligence, with body, parts, passions; possessing immortal flesh and immortal bones". James White Personality of God tract sold by the Church throughout Ellen White's life and past her death. 

The SDA Pioneers believed and taught that The Father exuded Christ from the Father's own flesh matter creating a new identity, a new "personality" - thus the "personality" had an origin but the flesh matter which made up Michael was from everlasting (because it was the flesh matter of the Father). 

“Some have difficulty in reconciling Christ's statement in John 14 : 28, " My Father is greater than I," with the idea that He is God, and is entitled to worship. Some, indeed, dwell upon that text alone as sufficient to overthrow the idea of Christ's divinity ; but if that were allowed, it would only prove a contradiction in the Bible, and even in Christ's own speech; for it is most positively declared, as we have seen, that He is Divine. There are two facts which are amply sufficient to account for Christ's statement recorded in John 14: 28. One is that Christ is the Son of God. While both are of the same nature, the Father is first in point of time. He is also greater in that He had no beginning, while Christ's personality had a beginning”. Present Truth December 18, 1890

Michael (or Christ) was understood by the Pioneers to be  Devine by Allodial Title - Michael was free to retain this Deity so long as he towed the rope and didn't mess up.

 

 "Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His Deity could not be lost while He stood faithful and true to His loyalty". E.G.W. May 10, 1899  Volume 25 No. 19 (page 2)

For anyone disagreeing that this wasn't what was meant I'll ask the question early as to where "LOST DEITY" would go / return to?