Lower than the angels?

June 15, 2006

When Jesus was here on earth, was He "lower than the angels" as is the rest of humanity? Or was He capable of more? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

June 15, 2006

Pam

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

He was made like we are in order to suffer the 2nd death. He had to be just like us without any advantage. He was born, born again if you will.

He was capable of more because He exercised faith. He was heard often telling those around Him "Oh ye of little faith" and in His home town He couldn't do many miracles because of their unbelief.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That is of course on condition

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus lived in God, in His love and will and we too can do this if we choose to believe.

Some of us are limitting what God is willing to do in our lives because of our unbelief. So I say let's believe God and watch Him work!

Norman

June 15, 2006

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He was capable of more because He exercised faith. He was heard often telling those around Him "Oh ye of little faith" and in His home town He couldn't do many miracles because of their unbelief.

Is God truly limited by people not having enough faith? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I've heard a lot of things - unselfish things - asked in the name of Jesus, but they didn't happen.

I'm sort of embarrassed to say this, but it seems like a cop-out for God/Jesus to say, *well, I could do this, but you don't score high enough on the Faith-O-Meter, so I'm not gonna do it.* <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

June 15, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I've heard a lot of things - unselfish things - asked in the name of Jesus, but they didn't happen.

I'm sort of embarrassed to say this, but it seems like a cop-out for God/Jesus to say, *well, I could do this, but you don't score high enough on the Faith-O-Meter, so I'm not gonna do it.* <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Since I've learned to pray in ways Abba and True Jesus can honor, They have never failed to give me anything I've asked for since. Even things that later turned out to be to my detriment, and They've had to come along and rescue me from them.

However, enough of those, and I've learned to pray for what I want in ways They can honor and then truly rest in the phrase, "but never the less, not my will (even though Abba I really, reallly, reallllly want it PUHLEEEEEEZE) but Thine be done".

It's not the faith that He can do it that's important, but the faith in Him that no matter what, He's can take care of you and His Will is thus perfect that is important. Up to and including yielding your life on request.

June 15, 2006

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I've heard a lot of things - unselfish things - asked in the name of Jesus, but they didn't happen

Jesus taught us to pray "The Lords Prayer" in part goes: "thy kingdom come; thy will be done".

The hardest part is understanding Gods will in our lives. I will use myself as an example. Right now, due to a separation and upcoming divorce, I am living in a government subsidized apt. Working 2 jobs and barely holding it all together. Was this Gods will for me? Surely not. He does not will His children to divorce and live in poverty. Somewhere along the line evil invaded and here I am. Do I blame God for not answering my prayers for this not to happen to me? No I don't. Because through all of this I know He has been with me. I pray for my ears to hear His voice and my feet to know His path. Even if I err and make a wrong choice, He will lead me back. It may take a few more blocks of walking the error but we get back on track. If you expect fast and easy from God, forget it. That's lucifers path. God's path will be hard work but more worth it.

June 16, 2006

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If you expect fast and easy from God, forget it. That's lucifers path. God's path will be hard work but more worth it.

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/] Nothing in my life has ever come *fast and easy* .. I never expected God to be different.

June 16, 2006

Hi Pam,

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I'm sort of embarrassed to say this, but it seems like a cop-out for God/Jesus to say, *well, I could do this, but you don't score high enough on the Faith-O-Meter, so I'm not gonna do it.

This is the way I understand it. Let's say you tell me to go and give $100.00 to this guy you know and he'll give me $200.00 back the next week. I say no I don't know Him and am afraid to loose my $100.00.

You say ok but you're loosing out. So you give the guy $1000.00 and two weeks later I have my $100.00 and you have your $2000.00. So becuase I didn't have faith I got nothing.

God has our lives ready for us if we will but do His will. If we don't then we loose out. Not that God says well you don't measure up so off you go empty handed till you get it together.

Also, in prayer we have to stay in His will and love. That way we will ask for things that are going to advance His kingdom not just our needs.

Another thing is that prayer gives God permission to work in our lives and the lives of others.

Pam if you haven't gone to this website yet please do it will bless you a lot.

http://lbm.org/store/information.php?info_id=6

Norman

June 16, 2006

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Norman said:

Hi Pam,

Also, in prayer we have to stay in His will and love. That way we will ask for things that are going to advance His kingdom not just our needs.

False false false. We are not limited to just asking for things that will advance His Kingdom.

I have asked for things that were just because I wanted them, and asked for them. He provided, and in hindsight it was clear He gave them to me just because I asked and wanted. Because when circumstances changed, He took them away gave me what I NEEDED. It was just harder than if I'd done it His way to begin with.

Some of the things He's provided are:

A working computer hard drive

A new (to me) truck

Keeping my car running - to the point the mechanics are mystified

Books

No rain tomorrow and Sabbath because I have lots going on.

New clothes

Corn Chowder

Now that doesn't mean I don't pray always in the center of His will, just it's ok to ask for what you want too.

June 16, 2006

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Norman said: in prayer we have to stay in His will and love. That way we will ask for things that are going to advance His kingdom not just our needs.

Maybe?

James 4:2 You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

June 17, 2006

Hi Clio,

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Norman said:

Hi Pam,

Also, in prayer we have to stay in His will and love. That way we will ask for things that are going to advance His kingdom not just our needs.

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False false false. We are not limited to just asking for things that will advance His Kingdom.

Clio, let me explain so you can see what I said. "That way "we" (you and I and others) will ask for things that will advance His kingdom, (what on earth could be more important than that?) not just our needs (meaning we can ask for things we need but not be stuck there asking only for those things)"

What is false about that? Having said that, I recommend people to pray only for things that advance His kingdom. Solomon's prayer comes to mind.

1Ki 3:5 In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.

3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing. 11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; 12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee. 13 And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honor: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days. 14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

Praying after this manner and not asking for our needs or things we want will yield a more fulfilling result. If Solomon had asked for things he wanted he would have gotten them but he would have missed what God had in store for him.

Try it and see how the Lord blesses you abundantly more than you can ask or think.

Jesus said,

[:"red"] Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. [/]

This is the essance of my comment. We are not to spend our time and energy praying for things God already knows we need. He can see what we need and has always known, forever. For that reason we should seek the kingdom of God and to advance it, there's enough evil (not trusting God) in the day.

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Now that doesn't mean I don't pray always in the center of His will, just it's ok to ask for what you want too.

<hr /></blockquote> The above clears that up.

Norman

June 17, 2006

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We are not to spend our time and energy praying for things God already knows we need. He can see what we need and has always known, forever. For that reason we should seek the kingdom of God and to advance it, there's enough evil (not trusting God) in the day.

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_sad.gif[/] Then why bother to ask God for anything at all if it doesn't make any difference? That's kinda discouraging..

June 17, 2006

Pam, the way you pray and how you ask are up to you and God. Personally even though I understand that God knows what I need even before I know what I need, I mention it anyway. Some things I guess I just put into Gods hands without a thought. Others I verbally place before Him. Especially if its something Im really stressed over. It makes me feel better to actually release it. Some people ask for everything in prayer, like God is some kind of heavenly vending machine. That to me is a waste of God's time.

June 17, 2006

Hi Pam,

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Then why bother to ask God for anything at all if it doesn't make any difference? That's kinda discouraging..

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean but I will answer according to what come to mind.

What is your motive for praying to God? Please let me be a little hard on you for a moment. Why are we wanting to stay on this earth? Don't we want to go and be with the Lord? Is this just some past time to make us feel good or are we really wanting to be with Him? He is in the process of changing our selfish minds into the mind of Christ. That's is the only way we can experience true happiness. It goes against our natural tendencies. I appologize if I offended you in this but I just want you to see something that might help.

The other thing is that you can ask for things you want but if you pray for just your needs, you'll miss blessings that will be life changing for you.

When I first became a SDA I read Solomon's prayer and decided not to ask for anything other than wisdom and for others to be led to God. This was great and I was given wisdom (I'm no solomon though) and was blessed beyond what I could have imagined.

Notice the Lord's prayer, there's nothing in it that encourages us to ask for things we want except daily bread.

I think if you look at this in a different way you'll see something interesting. Let's say you don't ask for anything but wisdom or some gift to reach other's for God. God will bless you with the desires of you heart and you will receive things that you will be totally amazed by. In giving ourselves to God and letting Him take care of us we will be a lot better off. It's like, I know what to give my stepson, while he thinks he knows what he wants.

Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

Psa 37:6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

Psa 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Norman

June 17, 2006

A general tacking on -

If something is worrying me, I pray about it. Whatever it is. The promise is "Cast all your care /anxiety on Him because He cares for you". (1 Peter 5:7)

I can be like Clio describes herself ( As You will, but I really want it, I want it,.....) - and the outcomes are as she describes too. God is my Friend and I enjoy talking to my Friend, so the subjects of the conversation are many and varied.

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on Thee, because he trusteth in Thee" Isaiah 26:3 (That is KJV because that is how I memorised that text).

June 17, 2006

Here is an example of a brother who is asking for prayer. His ministry is for the Muslim poeple. He doesn't know that I'm using this, but you can pray for him at the same time. Notice the nature his request; I know that God will bless him as He already has and is.

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Pray for all of our friends and contacts both locally and now internationally (Hamide and Ozan) that are continuing to blossom. Don't forget Yassin and Hanifi (2 of my local friends) especially that we will be able to study and grow together as God leads.

Pray for more timely opportunities to share the Confessions program on University campuses around the country (world); and, to share the Called to Display HIS Glory programs in Adventist churches around the country (world).

Pray for the time in Morocco to be a rich time of immersive study and building relationships for eternity in an otherwise challenging "mission" field. Pray that my family will be supported and safe while I am away.

Pray that we will have clear wisdom and guidance as we apply for various programs this fall for where God wants our ministry to continue. One possibility includes the Fulbright Fellowship to serve in Morocco for a year after graduation.

Pray that God will continue to abundantly supply our needs through Christ Jesus and the body of Christ.

Pray that God will clearly display HIS glory and plan in a way that Muslims around the world will be drawn closer to Him through Christ. Pray for dreams and visions and for guided interactions with people that can appropriately witness to them.

Norman

June 17, 2006

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_eek.gif[/] Do I really sound so selfish and absorbed in my own whims to folks here? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

::stares off into space for a minute::

My struggle right now is trying to see Christ as a real SOMEONE that I can relate to and talk to and listen to - Someone who accepts me and listens to me and comforts me. As far as I know, the only way for me to communicate with God is to pray. I don't have a good opinion of prayer...that is something I desparately need to keep working on - but I dont see prayer to God as a means of obtaining material goods and favors and power. Been there, done that with other deities, and I would like to think I have enough respect for Christ that I would not put Him into such a role.

::slowly shakes head::

I'm getting confused about too many things. Info overload, I think.. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

June 17, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

As far as I know, the only way for me to communicate with God is to pray. I don't have a good opinion of prayer...

Hi Pam,

If you're interested, here are some good articles regarding prayer from Doug Batchelor:

Teach us to pray part 1

Teach us to pray part 2

June 17, 2006

Happy Sabbath Pam,

I hope you have a great day today. I guess what I should say is to make that your goal. I am not saying that it's wrong to ask for things that we need but that we should ask for things that can be used to advance His kingdom. We are created for service nd good works in Christ and in doing these things we find our greatest joy.

Talking with God is what He wants. Just talking to Him. There's nothing wrong with that. As we do this and get to know Him more and love Him more our prayers will change. With our love for God increasing our love for others will grow as well.

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Do I really sound so selfish and absorbed in my own whims to folks here?

We are all selfish, that's why at times we squabble so much here. No I don't think you are just absorbed in yourself, becuase you are asking for answers to concerns that you have. Just don't wait to have all your questions answered before you give yourself fully to God. I'm sure you know this but just had to say it as a reminder.

Got to go to church,

God bless you,

Norman

June 17, 2006