Prophets. Wrong?

[Gregory Matthews]

See:

https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2020/do-prophets-including-ellen-white-make-mistakes

 

[phkrause]

The article is interesting, but I'm not sure I agree with a lot of it!!

[BlessedMan]

One of the biggest mistakes in this article is the repetitious use of artful adhominem argument to try to make the point that some prophets, to include EGW IS "in error." For example, his quibbling about her limestone statement and how she thought it causes earthquakes, when reacting with iron ore.

Quote

 

Ellen White, like Samuel, had moments in her long life where she proved that even prophets make mistakes. This is evident in her theological evolution, where some earlier positions conflict with later ones. Or in areas where her assertions have been contradicted by science. For example, her claims about earthquakes and volcanic formation have no scientific validation:

[R]ocks are heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. The action of the water upon the lime adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes, and fiery issues. As the fire and water come in contact with ledges of rock and ore, there are heavy explosions underground…. The air is hot and suffocating. Volcanic eruptions follow; and these often failing to give sufficient vent to the heated elements, the earth itself is convulsed, the ground heaves and swells like the waves of the sea, great fissures appear, and sometimes cities, villages, and burning mountains are swallowed up.(Patriarchs and Prophets, chapter 8, p. 108/9)

Today we know that volcanoes/earthquakes occur due to collision of tectonic plates and not interaction between “water and lime.”

 

As we have seen many times before, very selective use of her writings to brute them into saying things she actually did NOT ever intend is rampant with said "author" of this article. Here is the quote, in its context. It should be painfully obvious why Mathew Quartey lifted his quote so out of its original context. He felt he needed to "show" us how wrong she was. Rather than explain the quote in its context, he simply lifted it out of its place in the book Patriarchs and prophets:

Quote

At this time immense forests were buried. These have since been changed to coal, forming the extensive coal beds that now exist, and also yielding large quantities of oil. The coal and oil frequently ignite and burn beneath the surface of the earth. Thus rocks are heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. The action of the water upon the lime adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes, and fiery issues. As the fire and water come in contact with ledges of rock and ore, there are heavy explosions underground, which sound like muffled thunder. The air is hot and suffocating. Volcanic eruptions follow; and these often failing to give sufficient vent to the heated elements, the earth itself is convulsed, the ground heaves and swells like the waves of the sea, great fissures appear, and sometimes cities, villages, and burning mountains are swallowed up. These wonderful manifestations will be more and more frequent and terrible just before the second coming of Christ and the end of the world, as signs of its speedy destruction.  {PP 108.2} 

It can already be plainly seen that EGW was not, as Quartey so triumphantly claimed, saying specifically that iron ore and limestone mix together to cause "earthquakes. She did say they are a part of the process involved in  "earthquakes, volcanos, and fiery issues."

What she does appear to be alluding to are underground volcanoes, and there is no reason to suppose that she is wrong about how they sometimes do cause earthquakes. While the "science" may not be adequately explained therein, it does not follow that she was making a doctrinal or theological statement here any ways. And thirdly, Quartey fails to consider the ministry of Christ with all of His people, especially when they are in error, or when they dont understand something. As far as I can see, it was just another point and shoot article aimed solely at discrediting a woman of God, with absolutely no redemptive value to anyone.

As to her alleged shifting theology on some points, why on earth is that made out to be a crime? Seems to me that God would approve such growth in our walk with Him. (2 Cor 3:18 admonished us to "grow" in grace. And Jesus certainly didnt seem worried about certain of His disciples when they did not believe in the resurrection. Quartey has crippled his case with falsehoods that have no Biblical value.

Edited July 19, 2020 by BlessedMan

[pierrepaul]

18 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

As to her alleged shifting theology on some points, why on earth is that made out to be a crime?

It would not be a "crime" were it not for a movement within the SDA church which seeks to elevate her writings to the status of inerrancy. EGW wrote what she imagined to be truth and what she gleaned from other authors. No more no less.

[BlessedMan]

1 hour ago, pierrepaul said:

were it not for a movement within the SDA church which seeks to elevate her writings to the status of inerrancy.

Really? Tell us more. If its not a crime for you; then its not for her or anyone else. Unless you are going to tell us you have never changed your views before when you discovered "new light."

[JoeMo]

On 7/19/2020 at 2:20 PM, BlessedMan said:

What she does appear to be alluding to are underground volcanoes, and there is no reason to suppose that she is wrong

vol·ca·no

/välˈkānō/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a mountain or hill, typically conical, having a crater or vent through which lava, rock fragments, hot vapor, and gas are being or have been erupted from the earth's crust.

   • an intense suppressed emotion or situation liable to burst out suddenly.

      

     From the above definition (and all others I looked at), a volcano appears to be an opening in the earth from which lava flows.  Therefore, IMHO, there is no such thing as an underground volcano.

[BlessedMan]

28 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

vol·ca·no

/välˈkānō/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a mountain or hill, typically conical, having a crater or vent through which lava, rock fragments, hot vapor, and gas are being or have been erupted from the earth's crust.

   • an intense suppressed emotion or situation liable to burst out suddenly.

      

     From the above definition (and all others I looked at), a volcano appears to be an opening in the earth from which lava flows.  Therefore, IMHO, there is no such thing as an underground volcano.

I think your "definition" could use a little refinement. There is such a thing as Submarine Volcanos.

A description of these reads like so:

Quote

Submarine volcanoes are underwater vents or fissures in the Earth's surface from which magma can erupt. Many submarine volcanoes are located near areas of tectonic plate formation, known as mid-ocean ridges. The volcanoes at mid-ocean ridges alone are estimated to account for 75% of the magma output on Earth.

 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

There is such a thing as Submarine Volcanos.

Those are under water; not under ground. Interesting video, though.